*This is an interview I did in June of 2000 for the release of “Rockology”, Eric Carr’s posthumous solo album.
Carr was Kiss’ drummer during the 80s, until his passing on November 24, 1991. He was dressed as the fox when he debuted with Kiss. Eric Carr brought a heavier style of drumming to Kiss in the 80s and definitely a huge asset during a number of albums that saw the band at their lowest and rebuilding with a number of MTV era hits and hard-rock classics. As much credit as Kiss fans like to give Vinnie Vincent for ‘saving the band’ in the early 80s, I think it was Carr’s drumming and stability that had more to do with the band’s resurgence in the ’80s.
[more on this era another day…]
[Eric Carr [Paul Caravello] was the drummer in KISS from the time he replaced Peter Criss until he passed away in November of 1991 after a year of illnesses [cancer and heart surgery] and 2 brain hemorrhages. Longtime Kiss bandmate and friend Bruce Kulick helped to get together the tapes for what has now been released by Spitfire Records as “Rockology” – the Eric Carr solo album.
Featuring just Carr and Kulick, the album features 11 tracks [some instrumentals] from Eric’s Kiss days that never made it to album. The album is a decent rock album, and tracks like “Somebody’s Waiting” and “Eyes Of Love” sit strongly alongside the better Kiss tracks of the 80s era. This album will be a ‘must’ for Kiss collectors and a decent curious piece for rock fans in general; thus being a fitting release to pay tribute to Eric Carr as a musician.
I recently spoke with Eric’s sister – Loretta about the project and her brother.]
LORETTA CARAVELLO
Q: How did the idea for releasing the tapes come about?
L: The music that you hear on ‘Rockology’ was stuff that my brother wrote for Kiss, and it was really good stuff, and Bruce Kulick had some demo tapes, and the stuff was just too good to let it lay around. We wanted the fans to hear it, and Bruce really worked hard to put it out. He mastered it and everything, and we’re really glad it’s out.
Q: Do you know the time frames of the recordings?
L: I think “Somebody Is Waiting” was meant for the “Hot In The Shade” album in place of “Forever” [1989]; and I think “Eyes Of Love” was around the time of “Crazy Nights” [1987]. The other music that’s on there – “Tiara” and others, those were 4 “Rockhead” songs. Those were written throughout the 11 years, a little at a time. That was Eric’s animation.
Q: To what extent was Eric involved in these? Was he aware that these were going to come out one day?
L: He wanted it to. He presented “Somebody’s Waiting” and “Eyes Of Love” to Kiss; and that’s what he was supposed to do before each album – make a presentation and they would decide what would go on the album. Those were his pride and joy, he really loved the songs, but they just didn’t make it. As far as the songs for Rockheads – he was extremely protective of those; those were his special ‘babies’ for his animation.
Q: How involved was he in that?
L: They started in High School with 1 little character; actually it went all the way back to when he was a kid, and he just always drew characters on the side of his homework, and it progressed in high school. Then when he got in to Kiss it really started to take shape. He wrote stories; I have drawers full of stories, finished products, different character drawings that weren’t finished but the ideas were there, plus lots of documentation of companies that were really interested in producing the Rockheads, but of course due to the untimely death a lot of things changed.
Q: Who else besides Eric and Bruce played on a lot of these?
L: It’s just Eric and Bruce.
Q: So Bruce did the bass work as well!?
L: That was my brother. My brother did the vocals – the background vocals, the drums, bass guitar, and some of the lead vocals.
Q: Did any of the Kiss guys do any of the harmonies or anything?
L: Not an iota! That’s all Eric and Bruce.
Q: Is there more of this stuff in the vaults?
L: I don’t think so, from what we know right now, unless Bruce comes up with some more demo tapes. There was some songs that were not used. I have some lyrics that were written by him, and music, and different things that if someone wanted to actually sit down and write lyrics to the music and vice versa there would be some songs. You never know, though.
Q: A few of the tracks would’ve made excellent Kiss songs – like “Eyes Of Love” is easily recognizable..
L: Oh yeah, “Eyes Of Love” could’ve been a hit. As far as ballads go “Somebody’s Waiting” is aussum! That’s him doing all those harmonies; it’s pretty amazing!
Q: Those 2 especially would’ve fit on any Kiss album.
L: The other ones, you can hear where he was going with them. He wasn’t searching for melodies, the melodies were there, all it had to be was changed in to words, and the songs would’ve been complete.
Q: How involved were you with Eric as far as during his Kiss days and that, and how close were you with his career?
L: My brother was private with that to a degree. I think a lot of different things go on in the music field that you’re not aware of, and a lot of it’s not too nice, so he kind of kept us out of that part, which now I’m glad he did. We’d see him play all the time. He would always ask me about his solos, and I’d make a few suggestions to him. He always included us in that, but it wasn’t like he’d come home and say “Hey guess what happened?” That he did not do; my brother was very quiet as far as that stuff went. Good. It’s like leaving your work at the office too sometimes.
Q: Have you have had any contact with any of the Kiss guys as far as this release goes, besides Bruce Kulick?
L: Bruce Kulick and I are very close, and Adam Mitchell. They’ve both been really helpful in putting out the “Tale Of The Fox” – which is a video and the Rockology. So, that’s all I need, I got them.
Q: Can you tell me a bit about Eric in his early years, as far as his growing up, anything he followed, bands he liked……?
L: We came from a very musical family. My Grandfather was a trombonist on Vaudeville, my mother sang opera, my father was a trumpet player – we all play instruments. So music always surrounded us. But when The Beatles came out – that was the thing that did it and my brother formed a band called “The Cellarmen”. There’s were actually records that were made, and 1 of them was played on the radio – those we have on the video [The Tale Of The Foxx]. And he was in Salt N Pepper, Creation, Bionic Boogie, Lightning… – these were all basically the same band that changed members slightly throughout the 70s to ’80. He struggled a lot; there was so many ups and downs for him, but he never gave up, and I think that’s the key that most people can learn from him – always follow your dreams; he was a great example of getting it to work.
Q: One thing I would think I would say about him from (what I’ve gathered and what i followed of Kiss) is he was probably the one of the most honest guys in the band .
L: Yeah, he just loved the kids and he loved everybody. He never really spoke bad of anyone. We lived in Brooklyn from when he was in Kiss in the mid 80s and we’d have kids knocking on the door. And he was just a regular guy; he’d hang out outside on the steps and the neighbors would come over “Hey Paully!”; they knew him by Paully, they knew who he was. He was very accessible, a very honest guy; you would’ve never known he was a rock star — never!
Q: Can you take me back to the days when he joined Kiss, and what the reaction was?
L: He was with a band called ‘Flasher’, it was a 3 piece band. And they were playing in Long Island, and an ex-bandmate of Flasher told him he saw an ad and my brother followed up, sent in his resume. Kiss called him, and he went down for the audition. He came home and said he had to go back. The story I’m telling you is actually how it happened; it happened so fast, that we were so into what we were doing [working during the day] that this was happening right before our eyes and none of us really knew it. He finally came back one night and he went to the bathroom and he was shaving his mustache and beard, and he said “you know they called me back, but they said I’ve got to shave! That’s pretty cool…” And the next day he came home and he was in. This all took place in, i would say, in a matter of maybe a week. That’s it. It was just a normal week for everybody; it just didn’t have time to penetrate.
Q: What can you tell me about him from during the 80s, about his relationships with the guys in Kiss and how things worked and that?
L: I would have to say he was the closest to Gene; he was like his idol. Whenever you’d see them together my brother was always around him. Gene gave him a lot of good advice as far as The Rockheads go, and taught him a lot about dealing with business because Gene is a business-man. Paul and him had a good relationship too. Bruce and him became very very close though. I think because they were more on like the same level, you know – they were contracted, and they didn’t have as much say as the other 2 guys, so you have someone you can relate to a little more. But he got along well with everyone. He didn’t like to go against the grain; he spoke his mind when he had to, like certain music disagreements – like he thought they should be going in a heavier sound like the “Creatures…” sound in the ’80s, but they insisted on going more poppish. But you can’t buck the boss; when the boss says “that’s it!” – that’s it. So he went with the flow, and he loved what he was doing, but I think he wanted to go back to the roots of when they first started – with the heavy sound.
Q: What Kiss songs would you pick out that best feature Eric, that if he were around today would be his proudest moments?
L: He was really proud of “Little Ceasar”. That was the first song that he ever wrote and sang himself, and I think that was the ultimate for him; even though personally i don’t think it was his best song after hearing all the ones on “Rockology” – which i was not aware of until only a few years ago. I’d never heard these songs; these songs he did with Bruce. I knew he was great, but i was really flabbergasted, and I think that one of those songs would’ve been the ultimate for him if iit was on a Kiss album, but it’s on a solo album now and he really has that now.
Q: What would say are your best memories of your brother? What picture do you most come back to?
L: There’s a lot…….. I’d have to say how brave he was at the end. I know he was a brave guy and all, but just the overall way he made us all relax and just say “everything’s going to be OK”. Last impressions sometimes, you know!?
Q: Any stories about him?
L: He loved to catch bloopers in movies, that was like his big thing. He’d come over to my mom’s on Sundays for his famous spaghetti and meatballs – which he could eat 10 times a week. His big thing was watching movies and picking out bloopers, and his favorite movie was “The Ten Commandments”, and he loved “The Wizard Of Ozz”. He would actually sit in front of the TV and say “OK, watch this scene – this guy here died in the last scene….”, and he would be right about all these things that he caught. He could watch a movie over and over again, and he’d memorize it to a T. We have stories from his original bandmembers Salt N Pepper [and all these groups] – one of the guys I spoke to about 5 months ago, and he told me this story when my brother was sitting watching a movie and he was saying the lines before the people on the screen would, and he was sitting in his own world. And the guy said he was cracking up because he was imitating the Indians on the screen, what they were saying. My brother was always into that kind of stuff. And UFOs, that was his thing, you know.
Q: Have you read some of the Kiss books that have come out recently?
L: I read “Kiss And Tell” and “Black Diamond” ....
Q: What did you think of some of them?
L: Kiss And Tell – Wow!! I think you’ve got to have a lot of guts to put that stuff out there. Whether I believe it all or not is one thing and really not important, I just think it takes a lot of guts to do it. As far as Black Diamond, Dale Sherman I think, is really informative. This guy knew a lot of stuff. I met him in 1992 when he came to my home and we spent hours just talking, and he was really nice. He helped us with a lot of things throughout the years, and still is helping us. He’s a very nice person.
Q: Anything else you can tell me about your brother as far as Kiss and the 80s…..?
L: Yeah the 80s were hot. You’re always going to have your die-hards and your battle of the 80s to the 90s, and the 70s… but if it wasn’t for all Kisstory – there’d be no Kisstory. Without the 80s there would be no 90s. I feel that my brother gave the band punch. Gene would say that he made them so much better musically, because in order for them to hear themselves they had to really play hard because he was such a heavy drummer. He was a small guy, very tiny – like 5 4″ and a 32 waste. He was very thin on the bottom, but very muscular on top, and he worked out. Everytime I would go to a concert or meet someone back-stage that knew him – like Carmine Appice and all these people, because of course we grew up with them in Brooklyn, lived close to each other. They were amazed and go “Your brother’s amazing, and he’s so small”, and Carmine’s a giant. And I think that’s what amazed people is the power that he had and the size, and how innovative, I mean there was really no other drummer who did the cannon drum. My brother Todd Trent from Ludwig created that cannon drum – the one piece. And just the way he used everything, the lazers and everything; it just makes you wonder what he would’ve been doing today.
Q: Are you surprised by the amount of tribute that there is out to him?
L: Yeah! I think it came kind of late, but it’s wonderful. I think now kids are starting to just sit back and respect the whole history. It’s coming to and end, and now everyone’s reflecting on everything, and he really deserved it.
Q: The one thing I thought a little bit odd was that the day he passed away was the same day Freddie Mercury passed away, and Freddie kinda got a lot of the spotlight …….
L: All in the same time also, only England time – 5:00. So that’s just the whole irony of it – that even in death he couldn’t shine. And I’ve heard that from people that think that, but he’s shining now, and no-one’s forgotten him.
Q: Did he have favorite drummers?
L: Yeah he loved John Bonham, and of course Ringo – that was his inspiration at the time when he started. Lars Ulrich and they knew each, and my brother would say “you’re better” and Lars would say “no, you’re better” and they’d go back and forth. But my brother, I would say mostly John Bonham.
Q: Bonham was a heavy player as well.
L: That’s where my brother got that from. And you know he always wanted to meet him, and the year he got into Kiss was the year John Bonham passed away. So he met his son, and even jammed with him at times, but it wasn’t the same.
Q: How was he in his final months? Was he aware of what was going on with Kiss and that? How was his spirit?
L: He would take care of his health first and things were working all-right. He was strong after his heart operation, he got a clean bill of health. He went in to get some treatment for radiation for the cancer and he was in remission, and he was really happy. He worked hard. I feel personally that he could have gotten a lot more support, but everybody has a different way of dealing with things. I guess at that time people feel they are doing the right thing. I feel my brother held his own, and he wasn’t going to give up no matter what was out there; no matter who was telling him and what was telling him – he was a member of Kiss and he was going to die a member of Kiss! He did. And I truly tell you that that meant a lot to him.
Q: I assume he was close with Bruce near the end !?
L: Bruce was with us every step of the way. Bruce was a champion. When my brother passed away Bruce was with the family every day and he handled a lot of things for us that we couldn’t handle. He never left.
Q: What else have you got planned – a video?
L: There’s a DVD coming out called “Inside Tale of The Foxx”. This is the guy – Jack Sawyer made it; this is going to be more extensive, and have links to more unreleased music, again, a more extensive look at The Rockheads, more interviews, really cool stuff. We found some footage of my brother on 8mm film, playing drums at 16 years old, and him as a kid running around. Just stuff that we’re fascinated with because we didn’t even know we had it. The most important thing right now though is The Rockheads. We’re focused [me, Bruce, and Adam] are focused on that, and that was my brother’s ultimate goal, and he was so close, I mean Hanna Barbara was interested, Landmark was interested, but at the last minute things just fell through. They couldn’t agree on something. My brother wanted control of that; that was one thing that was his and he wanted the control of that. And when you get in to certain positions certain things people want to control, and sometimes you cut your nose to spite your face because you just don’t want to give it away. Hopefully now we can make his dream come true. I know he’s watching because he’s helping us every step of the way.
Q: Can you give me 3 words that would best sum up your brother?
L: I would say ‘loving’, ‘kind’ and ‘caring’.
Q: Was he a gentle person?
L: Yeah, very soft spoken, so patient, very patient, and he showed it. You can interview fan after fan who will say they adored him and he made their day; took the time out. He was a good natured person and when you’re good people remember that and it comes back to you 10 times. And it’s showing now. Everybody’s come forward to help, unconditionally, with pictures, video, and any other way, even just kind words, and that’s what pulled us through.
Well, the 3rd release from classic rock trio Blue Coupe is out! It’s called “Eleven Even” – and was released on the 11th day of the 11th month – featuring 11 aussum new songs. The band consisting of Blue Oyster Cult founding members Joe & Albert Bouchard, as well as founding Alice Cooper bandmember Dennis Dunaway come up with a varied set of tunes that are imaginative, rock, and I love the production of this album, as well as the inclusion of Tish & Snooky [backing vocals] on every track. A couple of cool rockers in the tale of “Hey Sheriff” and “Tank Man” [I got read up on this one].
No huge rocker here, but that’s OK because there are plenty of unique songs, great solos, and 70s feel to keep fans happy, most notably lead Off tune “D Train”, penned by the late David Roter [see BOC’s “Joan Crawford”] and sung by Albert, it recalls the experience of taking the subway in New York, the bass drives this song, very different track, reminiscent of something from an old detective show [musically]. “Bitter Game”, one of my faves here – a ballad, with a psychedelic feel to it, and a great old school rock built up solo. Love the Dennis Dunaway tracks – the ballad “Rendezvous In Pale Moonlight”, and the classic pop-rocker “Day After Day (Running Away)” – both songs have a cool ’70s feel to them. Also diggin’ Joe’s acoustic track “Simple Answers Kill”.
Lots to get into here; but you can check out plenty of this on youtube or check the soundclips at the band’s site.
The 1980s was an amazing decade for action movies and cool soundtracks. The ‘Rocky’ series from Sylvester Stallone would feature a number of a classic hits, a few by AOR band Survivor and a huge hit in a classic scene from Rocky IV – “No Easy Way Out” by American singer/songwriter Robert Tepper. The song propelled Tepper in the charts, and would become his trademark song. Prior to that Tepper had written with the likes of Benny Mardones, and contributed his songwriting skills to other artists, like Pat Benatar. Following a couple of solo albums in the 80s, he hit a rough patch with record labels, and would record a few albums years later. Most recently he has returned to a classic AOR sounding album with some of his most memorable and well produced songs since the mid 80s. “Better Than The Rest” features 11 news songs and will appeal to those that loved those 80s AOR albums, albeit this is nicely up to date. Tepper’s distinctive voice and delivery hasn’t lost anything over the years, the guy still sounds as great as he did 3 decades ago. Better Than The Rest boasts a wide range of tracks that should appeal to anyone looking for a bright upbeat album.
It is available on AOR Heaven. Below Robert answers questions about his lengthy career, and his brand new album!
What sort of music did you perform when you started out in the late 60s — rock, pop, any particular singers, styles, or bands who influenced you back then?
BACK IN THE SIXTIES WE WERE THE LUCKIEST HUMANS ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET – THE STONES, THE BEATLES. I REMEMBER WALKING INTO RECORD STORES AND JUST LOOKING FOR THE FREAKIEST COVER I COULD FIND. IT WAS THE BEGINNING OF THE BRITISH REVOLUTION AND THE BAND I WAS IN WAS COVERING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. WE CAME UP PLAYING DOWN THE JERSEY SHORE AND WE WOULD DO “HEY JUDE” AND THE PLACE WOULD GO NUT! BACK THEN THERE WASN’T SUCH A DIVIDE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MUSIC. I LOVED ROCK SINGERS ROD STEWART AND “TRUTH”, AND I LOVED THE FOUR TOPS AND THE RADIO PLAYED IT ALL ON THE SAME STATION. OTIS REDDING’S VOICE ALWAYS SLAYED ME. WILSON PICKET, ELVIS – LOVED HIS VOICE.
Can you give me a top 10 [or less] of some of your favorite albums from your younger days?
YOUNGER DAYS TOP TEN RECORDS NO PROBLEM! DON’T REMEMBER ALL THE NAMES BUT I WAS OBSESSED WITH THE BEATLES “WHITE ALBUM” – NO SURPRISE THERE. THE STONES “12 BY 5”, THE LOVIN SPOONFUL “DO YOU BELIEVE IN MAGIC”, THE DOORS “SOFT PARADE”, ALVIN LEE TEN YEARS AFTER, JOHNNY WINTER THE BLACK ALBUM, JIMI HENDRIX “AXIS BOLD AS LOVE”,FIRST BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS RECORD WITH AL KOOPER SINGING, CROSBY STILLS AND NASH “CARRY ON” ALBUM AND ANY ALBUM WITH OTIS REDDING.
When did you start writing your own songs and how did that evolve into your songs being used by other artists?
WE WROTE A SONG IN A BAND I WAS IN WHEN I WAS 17 CALLED “BLACK IS WHITE”. IT WASN’T VERY GOOD, BUT HEY – EARLY ATTEMPTS. I WAS A SLOW DEVELOPER IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD. SOMETHING SNAPPED IN MY BRAIN AS I GOT OLDER IT BECAME EASIER FOR ME TO WRITE. I ALWAYS FEEL LIKE I WRITE THE SONG AND THEN GO BACK AND PICK AT IT. BUT WHEN YOU WRITE WITH OTHER PEOPLE SOMETIMES THEY’RE ALWAYS “I DON’T LIKE THAT OR THAT SUCKED”, DON’T LIKE TO HEAR THAT SOUND IN MY HEAD WHEN SOMETHING IS JUST GETTING STARTED. PABLO AND I WRITE WELL TOGETHER BECAUSE WE LET IT KIND OF FLOW AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
I GOT A COUPLE OF CUTS LIKE PAT BENATAR “LA BEL AGE” -. LEFT OVER FROM THE “NO EASY WAY” RECORD AND “INTO THE NIGHT” BY USHER – LOVE THAT ONE. BENNY MARDONES KNEW THE PRODUCER AND THEY STARTED WORKING ON IT.
You probably get asked this quite a bit – but what is the story with Stallone contacting you and wanting to use “No Easy Way Out” in Rocky 4 ?
I DO GET ASKED THAT QUESTION QUITE A BIT BUT NO WORRIES I GOT YOU. SLY’S RELATIONSHIP WAS WITH MY FIRST LABEL THE SCOTTI BROS. HE WASN’T’ TALKING TO ME ABOUT WHAT HE NEEDED. THEY MUST HAVE HAD A MEETING AND SLY HEARD MY ALBUM AND THAT STARTED THE BALL MOVING. HE ABSOLUTELY LIKED THAT SONG AND DID IT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF JUSTICE IN THE MOVIE.
That scene in Rocky 4 with No Easy Way Out playing is such a huge, memorable scene – what was your initial response to see it when the movie came out?
OKAY, SO HERE WE ARE MY SECOND WIFE AND I GOING TO THE PREMIER OF “ROCKY FOUR” IN WESTWOOD CALIFORNIA. I WAS PRETTY GREEN ABOUT ALL THE HOOPLA GOING ON FOR A MAJOR HOLLYWOOD MOVIE.
SO I WAS A LITTLE STAR STRUCK BY IT ALL. AND WHEN THE SONG PLAYED UP ON THE SCREEN I WAS LIKE – ‘DAMN’ – THAT WAS POWERFUL. AND I GUESS IT WAS BECAUSE IT STILL SEEMS TO MOVE PEOPLE A GREAT DEAL.
Stallone also used Angel Of The City in ‘Cobra’ . Have [had] you been approached to submit anything to any of his [or other movies] since then?
I HAVE NOT BEEN APPROACHED BY ANYONE FOR ANY OF HIS PROJECTS SINCE COBRA BUT I WILL SAY THIS THAT I THOUGHT “BETTER THAN THE REST” WOULD HAVE WORKED NICELY IN THE NEW ‘CREED’, AND I GAVE IT A SHOT AND TRIED TO CONTACT SOME PEOPLE ABOUT IT BUT THEY WERE MOSTLY USING R & B AND RAP MUSIC IN THE SOUND TRACK. OH WELL.
Following 2 solo albums you ran into legal issues with your label [!?] and then joined Psych rockers Iron Butterfly. How did that all come about?
WELL THE IRON BUTTERFLY THING TURNED INTO A ROBERT TEPPER ALBUM. BECAUSE THE GUY WHO WAS FINANCING THE PROJECT FORGOT ONE KEY ELEMENT – TO GET CLEARANCE TO USE THE NAME IRON BUTTERFLY. IT WAS THE TIME I THINK IN THE MID NINETIES WHEN A LOT OF BANDS WERE FILLING IN THE MISSING PIECES AND COMING OUT WITH NEW VERSIONS OF BANDS. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A SINGER AND A WRITER SO I FIT THE BILL PRETTY GOOD. AND THERE WERE SOME GOOD SONGS ON THAT RECORD. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO DO IT ALL. BUT THE GUY BEHIND IT ALL COULD NOT GET HIS SHIT TOGETHER.
What do you recall of those IB period – fave songs, types of shows, etc..? Play any new material during this period?
IT’S FUNNY BECAUSE IT NEVER TRULY GOT OFF THE GROUND. THERE WERE NO SHOWS PERSAE AND THE RECORD TURNED INTO A SOLO THING FOR ME. BUT THE MANAGEMENT WAS A MESS AND PEOPLE IN THE PROJECT WERE A MESS, I TRIED I DID. SHOWED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A GOOD ALBUM.
You’ve got back in to performing and recording more over the past decade, and in Better Than The Rest really brings you back to a solid upbeat, bright pop rock sound that you were more known for in the 80s.What lead to this album – recording and direction?
WELL I JUST FELT THAT THERE HAD BEEN OVER A TWENTY YEAR BREAK SINCE I DID A TRUE AOR ALBUM. AND TO BE HONEST I DIDN’T FEEL INSPIRED TO MAKE THAT KIND OF RECORD. I WAS WRITING THE WHOLE TIME PRODUCING AND ENGINEERING BUT NOT PUTTING MUCH STUFF OUT. AND THEN I DID “NEW LIFE STORY”, WHICH WAS MORE ACOUSTIC DRIVEN. WELL THAT GOT ME TO SPAIN WHERE I MET PABLO PADILLLA.
YOU GOT TO REMEMBER THE WORLD WAS NOW A VERY DIFFERENT PLACE.
I STARTED HEARING FROM THE FANS ON SOCIAL MEDIA ‘WE LOVE IT WHEN YOU ROCK’. PABLO AND I ASKED THE QUESTION ‘HOW CAN WE MAKE A FRESH SOUNDING AOR RECORD?’ – THAT WAS THE GOAL. WE SPENT ABOUT A YEAR PURSUING IT AND I THINK WE ACHIEVED THE GOAL FOR THE MOST PART.
Through the live clips I’ve seen and the new album – you still have the passion to make and perform great music. What is your drive at this stage of your career/life to get out there perform and create ?
I FEEL LIKE I NEVER DID ENOUGH OF WHAT I SET OUT TO DO ALL THOSE YEARS AGO. I FELT LIKE MY VOICE WAS HOLDING UP AND I REALLY ENJOYED DOING SHOWS AGAIN. I FELT LIKE MY WRITING IN MANY WAYS WAS BETTER NOW. AND PABLO AND I KNEW THE KIND OF RECORD WE WANTED TO MAKE.
Can you talk a bit about how the songs were written and put together between yourself and Pablo Padilla?
THE SONGS WERE WRITTEN IN A SERIES OF SESSIONS WHERE PABLO AND I WOULD GET TOGETHER ONCE, MAYBE TWICE A WEEK AND START WRITING. THIS PART OF THE RECORD ALL SEEMED SO EFFORTLESS, AND WE ENJOYED IT SO MUCH. SOMETIMES WE WOULD WRITE EVERYTHING IN A NIGHT AND IT WAS ALL SO SATISFYING.THERE MIGHT EVEN BE AN EARLY VOCAL ON ONE OR TWO TRACKS.
There’s a good mix of upbeat pop numbers, and a couple of ballads included on Better Than The Rest – can you tell me a bit about that song, and a bit of some of the other tracks that stand out like My Yesterday, Testimony, Time Just This Time[?]
THE STANDOUTS FOR ME ARE FIRST “BETTER THAN THE REST” – WHEN WE FINISHED THIS SONG WE HAD LIKE A REALLY GOOD RUFF OF IT AND PABLO WAS PLAYING IT FOR PEOPLE AND THEY SAID HEY THIS IS REALLY KIND OF COOL. SO WITH THE GOOD FEEDBACK IT GAVE US STRENGTH TO KEEP GOING. NEXT WOULD BE FOR ME “TIME JUST THIS TIME” – IT FELT LIKE IT FELL OUT OF THE SKY, I LOVED IT IMMEDIATELY, AND IT JUST FELT SPECIAL. AND TOWARDS THE END I WOULD SAY ”MY YESTERDAY” – I LIKE THE PERFORMANCES ON IT AND I REALLY LIKE THE MIX.
What other tracks are you most happy with? Any anecdotes or insight to personal faves?
AS FAR AS FAVE SONGS ALWAYS “KNOCKING ON THE WRONG DOOR” WAS COOL. FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE I WAS SO PISSED OFF BECAUSE SOMETHING HAD HAPPENED TO THE LEAD VOX ON IT AND I HAD TO REDO IT. I WASN’T HAPPY.
THE ONES I TALKED ABOUT ARE PROBABLY MY FAVES. ”WHY DOES OVER” WAS ALWAYS IN FIRST PLACE FOR ME AS THE SONG THAT WOULD START THE RECORD BECAUSE I LOVE THAT BEGINNING HOW THE GUITARS GET ALL COOL UP IN THERE.
THE RECORD TOOK ABOUT A YEAR. WE ASKED THE QUESTION OF OURSELVES ‘WHAT IF AOR MUSIC NEVER LEFT THE MAIN STREAM WHAT WOULD THE ENERGY FEEL LIKE TODAY?’ IN SOME WAYS I FEEL THIS IS A GREAT FOLLOW UP TO NO EASY. IT’S STRONG AND DIRECT AND EMOTIONAL.
Most recently Canadian musician Rick Santers has posted about the upcoming Santers [band] definitive remasters of the band’s catalogue, as well as the inclusion of the full release of the Queensbury Arms full live show, from 1982 – 2 tracks from this featured on the “Mayday” EP in ’82, and some tracks were included as bonus tracks to the “Top Secrecy” CD release years later.
Here are my original interviews from way back, discussing the Santers days, albums, Top Secrecy, side projects and [then] future projects.
The first interview is with singer/songwriter & guitarist Rick Santers, from 1998 around the time of the Santers IV box set [Japan], while the second [Santers’ band interviews] are from 2002 fof the release of the “Cold Fusion” compilation CD.
Q: When did you first start playing guitar and why? RS: I started playing guitar when I was 8 years old. I started taking piano lessons when I was 7, and some of my friends had big brothers that played guitar so I got interested early on. The guitar, especially, had a real mystical quality about it. I was really attracted to it. So, I guess I chose the piano, but the guitar chose me.
Q: Who were some of your first big influences and what did you listen to throughout the ’70s?? RS: Creedence Clearwater Revival was my first big influence. John Fogerty wrote catchy, melodic, straight up toonz with that earthy, swamp/rock vibe! I was hooked. I would go around singing and playing CCR toonz day and night. I learned them inside out. Then one day I heard “Black Dog” being played in a records section at a big department store and GOD ALMIGHTY! I thought the sky had fallen. These guys were coming from some place totally different. During this time I was also being exposed to bands like Jimi Hendrix, Yes, Deep Purple, Johnny Winter, Genesis, Gentle Giant and list goes on. Once you really get started exploring music there’s no stopping.
Q: Did you have a big record collection in the 70s & 80s? (still?) Just curious, judging by some of the bands/musos you mentioned. RS: I have all my LP’s from the 70s & 80s. They range from HR to HM to progressive rock to fusion to jazz to experimental. I’m glad I still have it.
Q: What sort of bands were you in prior to forming ‘Santers’? RS: My brother Mark and I formed a number of bands that were in some way , shape or form a version of SANTERS. We had revolving bass players in the beginning and we never seemed to be able to keep another guitar player or keyboard player in the band. We could always get together and rehearse with three
guys, but never four. I remember some of the early band names were MANTIS, RAM and NIGHTHAWK.
Q: Any recordings?? RS: Yes, my brother and I recorded some songs under the name NIGHTHAWK but were never released. We were constantly recording on an old 2 track 1/4″ tap machine that I had, bouncing tracks back and forth in mono. We got our recording chops down this way.
Q: Got any still?? RS: I still have all our basement recordings. But they’re for personal listening only. We recorded a bunch of ‘ 70’s cover tunes some Queen, Deep Purple etc. Helped us get our recording chops down.
Q: When did Santers begin playing on the TO circuit? RS: We started in 1979 playing local clubs in Toronto and some in Ontario cottage country. Then we got booked on a tour of Quebec.
Q: What do you recall of recording the first album? favorite memory? stories? RS: On our return from Quebec we went straight into the studio to record our first album “Shot Down In Flames”. About half of the album was written on that Quebec tour. We only had one week to record and mix the entire album so it was pretty much live off the floor. Studio time was a luxury for us, I suppose it still is for most new bands, but I remember going in to record and Mark and Rick Lazaroff coming down with a flu bug they caught on the tour. Rick Lazaroff recorded the album sitting down because he was so sick. It still amazes me how musicians can overcome illness to play music! THE SHOW MUST GO ON! is a motto we definitely lived by because if one guy couldn’t play, no one got paid. So, in all the years we toured I don’t think we ever canceled a show. We just went on stage – sick, if we had to.
Q: What is being played at the beginning of “Shot Down In Flames” (the song)? RS: The swelled parts in the intro were a backwards piano chords. We flipped the tape around and I just hit those chords and let ’em hang. Then we flanged it. At the end of the song the effect was created by sending a sustained guitar feedback loop into an MXR delay and recording it onto the multi-track machine then vari-speeding it up so when we played it at normal speed it would sound like a dive bomber.
Q: Did any tracks off this album get air-play? (ie Q107) RS: Yes. “Time After Time” got lots of airplay because it was a winning song on their Homegrown album. Q 107 also played “Caught in the Wind”, “You Turn Me On” and “Shot Down In Flames”. Back then they were an Album Oriented Rock station. They’d used to go four or five cuts deep into an album. I think their format has changed now though.
Q: First album was quite heavy. What influenced that direction in recording? RS: Probably coming straight of the road doing gigs. We rocked night after night and that can’t help but translate into the studio performances. Also, like I mentioned before it was recorded and mixed in one week, so you have to plan what you want to do before you go in.
Q: Why the ‘Mayday’ EP between LPs?? Is there a full show of that ‘Queensbury Arms’, 1982 show still on tape? RS: That was our record company’s idea. I was a bit reluctant because I wanted to release an entire album and was more than half way done writing “Racing Time” when they approached us with the idea of releasing an EP. A lot of British bands were releasing EP’s back then. They wanted four or five new songs but that meant half of “Racing Time” was going to be an EP. I agreed to donate two new songs and two live tracks to make up the EP. I’m currently collecting all the SANTERS live tapes and reviewing them to produce a SANTERS live album. That’s one of my projects I want to complete in 1999.
Q: I’ve got an article of you guys from an old Kerrang rag I think. Did you get much response over there? RS: The UK response was good. We toured with MAGNUM for 20 theater shows. We had a great time.
Q: On the 2nd LP you played some keys. How much of a keyboard player are you compared to a guitar player to a singer and a songwriter? (ie> what do you consider yourself first, second, third, and fourth?) RS: I guess I’d have to say the piano is my discipline, the guitar is my passion, my voice is my emotion, and my songwriting is my muse.
Q: How did you come to work with Jack Richardson? RS: Our live sound engineer, Garth Richardson, Jack’s son, introduced us in Vancouver. Jack and I got together and finished the album “Racing Time” which we had already recorded all the bed tracks and 90% of the overdubs. Jack and I added some extra guitar tracks, redid some lead vocal tracks and then mixed the album.
Q: “Mistreatin’ Heart” became a hit locally, what do you recall of writing & recording that song? RS: All I remember is sitting down at my desk in my room with my acoustic guitar, a pencil and paper and it really wrote itself. We recorded all the songs from “Racing Time” much like “Shot Down In Flames” – live off the floor with a few over dubs. We recorded and mixed “Racing Time” in two weeks. SANTERS were constantly touring so I would introduce any new songs I had to the guys during sound check. When we felt they were ready we’d introduce them into the live set. Before you knew it we had an album and we’d go into the studio and record it just like we played it on stage. SANTERS were never a big production band in the studio like other bands from that time period. Mainly because we never had a big budget to spend on recording. In hindsight I think that was a good thing. Our albums still stand the test of time because of their honesty. They are a true representation of a live, touring three-piece hard rock band.
Q: How did the band come to work with Rick Emmett as a producer for ‘Guitar Alley’? RS: Our manager at the time had also worked with TRIUMPH and he suggested Rik’s name to us when we were considering whom to chose as a producer for “Guitar Alley”. TRIUMPH also kindly lent us their stage gear for a tour of eastern Canada when our gear was stolen two days before we were to leave.
Q: Why the cover of “All Right Now”?? RS: We had finished recording all the songs for “Guitar Alley” and we decided to add a cover for fun. “All Right Now” was a toon we played live from time to time and it seemed an obvious choice.
Q: Do you think ‘Guitar Alley’ stands up as strong as the first 2 Lps? what are your thoughts on that album? Was it a difficult album to make? RS: Guitar Alley was a very different album from our first two recordings. I really let go the reins of producer and included Rik Emmett early on during pre-production – something else that was really different for us. Every album SANTERS recorded has something different in terms of how it was recorded and Guitar Alley was no exception. We stretched out a lot on this album so there are the inevitable growing pains when you do that. But, again, that’s how one moves forward. The alternative is artistic stagnation.
Q: Were you satisfied with the album when it was done? RS: Guitar Alley was released in more countries around the world and subsequently sold the most units. Can’t Shake You got us a good amount of MTV exposure and was played on over 100 US AOR stations. I was pretty happy about how people received it.
Q: Did the band record another album after this? If so, what can you tell me about it, and why was it never released? RS: We recorded “Top Secrecy” after the “Guitar Alley” tour ended. I decided to set up my own recording studio and that’s where we got together and recorded the album. I produced it myself and invited Brian Allen to join me in the studio to help with the mixes. That was when our label went out of business and after six years of touring and recording with SANTERS I guess this signaled something in me to persue some new challenges.
Q: How does Top Secrecy compare to previous LPs? RS: Top Secrecy is probably a cross between Racing Time and Guitar Alley. It has more of the urgency of Racing Time with the Hard/Pop elements of Guitar Alley.
Q: Why did the band break up? RS: The offer to work with TRIUMPH came at the time when I was looking at taking some new directions in my career. The idea of working with another band was very appealing because I could take a back seat and let some one else drive the car for a while.
Q: What was your association with Triumph over the years? RS: I’ve always had a good relationship with all the guys in TRIUMPH over the years. I’ve continued to write with Rik Emmett, and two of those co-writes are on my new solo album “ReViTaLiZe”.
Q: Did you record an album with Triumph a few years ago that was not released? (details!) RS: No. I did work on a project with Gil as producer, but it wasn’t a Triumph album.
Q: What did you do in the years following Santers? RS: After working with TRIUMPH I started getting down to business writing my solo album “ReViTaLiZe”. I also kept busy producing bands to try and keep involved with the local artistic community in Toronto. This was something I wanted to do because in SANTERS we were never home long enough to work with other artists. We were an island unto ourselves, and I wanted to allow everyone to go and work with different people to stretch our boundaries a little.
Q: Why did you decide to record an acoustic album? thoughts on it? RS: I don’t really think “ReViTaLiZe” is an acoustic album per se. It has acoustic elements yes, especially in the attempt to retain the songwriting essence. I wanted to write the songs and be able to play them on acoustic guitar because that’s where they started. I also wanted to produce an album where all the musicians were in tune with the ‘songs’ and left room for the singer/songwriter vibe to come through. Working with Jorn Anderson and Peter
Cardinali was a great experience. We met at the studio, set up and recorded the songs with no rehearsals. We listened to the songs with me singing and playing acoustic guitar and just laid them down. Then we recorded the electric guitars and Hammond B3 afterwards.
Q: what are you planning in the future? RS: Well, with SANTERS lV – The Box Set out in Japan I’m working on putting together a promotional tour over there. All of the guys in SANTERS have gotten together recently an experimented with some new song ideas I’ve been working on as well. And the prospect looks good for us to get together and record a new album this year if our schedules allow. I’ve also just finished producing a world/pop record with a flamenco guitarist Jorge Miguel Jarzabek that’s going to be released soon. The follow-up to solo album to “ReViTaLiZe’s is also in the works.
Q: That’s great! And if all goes well, I’ll get a new Coney Hatch album someday soon too! (I’m serious!). Do you have contact with any of the CH guys much? Any of TO rockers? RS: Not very much. I’m busy with Dandelion Records and producing artists.
Q: Why has no Canadian label released a Santers compilation CD in all these years?? RS: As with most labels they’re very concerned with new trends. That’s just a fact of life in the music business. That’s why I took the SANTERS tapes to Japan and signed an agreement over there to release SANTERS lV – The Box Set. Plus I’ve started Dandelion Records so I can make my recordings available through the Internet.
Q: What can you tell us about SANTERS IV? RS: SANTERS lV is a box set of four SANTERS studio albums on CD including the bands new release “Top Secrecy.” Also included are the albums “Guitar Alley”, “Racing Time” and “Shot Down In Flames” with unreleased bonus tracks along with their original artwork and a commemorative booklet.
Q: I thought it was a real shame that no one could at least make a compilation CD here, like they did with Coney, Goddo, etc… RS: Well, in hindsight I’m glad they didn’t because now SANTERS fans have SANTERS lV – The Box Set along with Top Secrecy and bonus tracks. Most Toronto HR bands from the late ’80’s got caught between the LP wind down and the CD start up in manufacturing so the fact that this Box Set took until now, in my mind gives the SANTERS discography the attention and credibility it deserves, rather than a best of compilation. “Everything comes to those who wait!”
Q: What exists in ‘the vaults’ (or yer basement) in regards to Santers video (I got a Massey Hall show from the ’80s), live recordings, demos, etc…. RS: We didn’t record much of the band on film. There’s the Massey Hall show and the “Can’t Shake You” and “You Turn Me On” videos. We did a few TV music shows in Hamilton CHCH TV. I think the show was called “Music Circle” where we performed some of the toonz from “Shot Down In Flames”, but I think that’s it. As I mentioned before, I’m piecing together the best live material for an upcoming SANTERS live album.
Q: Have you done any session work, guest appearances, or production over the years following Santers? RS: SANTERS played on LEE AARON’s debut album and I also wrote a couple of the tracks. I also played on Bob Segarini’s new track “Groucho Marx” for his reissue “Gotta Have Pop” album.
Q: Favorite gigs with Santers? Biggest crowds? Biggest opening band slot? RS: SANTERS opening across Canada for OZZY OSBORNE’s “Diary Of A Madman” tour is definitely a highlight. We also toured England with a band called Magnum in support of our “Racing Time” album. Playing Massey Hall with Johnny Winter was also great fun for me because I’m such a big fan of his. Some of the other bands we performed with were Blue Oyster Cult, Golden Earring, Kim Mitchell, Accept, Rick Derringer and Triumph.
Q: Favorite guitar players (old days and current)? RS: Jeff Beck has always been high on my list. He has the ability to move between musical genres and still leave his undeniable stamp. Of course Jimi Hendrix was completely out of control and set a very high emotional standard for the electric guitar. I’d also have to mention Johnny Winter. He’s such a master of the blues and his slide playing is unmatched in my opinion. Other guitarists I love to listen to are Allan Holdsworth, David Gilmour and Jimmy Page.
Q: Thoughts on todays’ music scene? RS: I’m encouraged by the fact that many new artists are returning to making melodic statements again. There was a serious backlash from melodic music when the alternative scene broke out. Probably because the line that separated the uniqueness between how artists sounded was getting blurred. But I hear more new artists placing an importance on melody again and it’s great to hear it. I think that melody has always been a big part of the SANTERS sound, and I think it always will.
Q: What are you doing outside of music? any other hobbies? RS: All of my music projects keep me pretty busy these days.
Q: Any contact with Rick Lazaroff? Any possibility of a Santers reunion gig? RS: Yes, were all still in contact with each other. We’ll see about a reunion gig. I try never to rule anything out.
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Visit Dandelion Record’s web site at http://www.interlog.com/~dandlion,
OR, for more info E-mail dandlion@interlog.com
Copyright, 1998 – KJJ
THE SANTERS BAND INTERVIEWS
2001 saw the reunion of Canadian trio SANTERS, with the release of “Cold Fusion” – a 14 track ‘best of’ with a few unreleased gems included as well. A few months back I sent questions for guitarist / singer / songwriter Rick Santers, bassist Rick Lazaroff, and drummer Mark Santers to get a complete Santers retrospect. [Oh yeah, see my old interviews for another exclusive with Rick Santers!]. Anyway, here’s the interviews with Rick, Rick and Mark!
RICK SANTERS
Q: The Santers’ catalogue has been released in whole and in compilations a few times previously in Europe and Japan years back, How did the whole idea and plans for Cold Fusion come along?
A: The idea for Cold Fusion came from the realization that our North American and specifically Canadian fans had not seen the SANTERS masters released domestically for a long time. And that included rock radio too. Many SANTERS fans simply weren’t aware of the Japanese and European releases. So, we wanted to create a package that would appeal to our North American fans. It made sense to release the SANTERS masters to fans through a “Best Of” CD. As an added bonus we also included three tracks from our Top Secrecy album that was never released here. While compiling Cold Fusion I also found some rare photos and some early, never before released SANTERS recordings(from the Shot Down In Flames sessions) that I thought would be a nice way to round out the CD. All in all I think it’s a really comprehensive CD that features many classic SANTERS tracks, plus unheard material.
Q: Aside from the obvious hits, how did you go about selecting tracks for Cold Fusion from the previous albums? Any personal faves or live faves?
A: Well, I had four albums to select from, Shot Down In Flames, Racing Time, Guitar Alley and Top Secrecy, so to be fair I picked three tracks from each plus the two bonus tracks. Everyone seems to have their own personal faves so I referred to the songs we perform in our live set, as those always seemed to rise to the top of the list in the ears of our fans. I love all these songs they’re my “babies”!
Q: Why did it take 12 years to finally mix and then release Top Secrecy?
A: Well, Top Secrecy was pretty much finished around the time I started working with TRIUMPH. Only two tracks, “Come and Get It” and the title track Top Secrecy had only rough mixes. I put final mixes for those two songs together in preparation for the SANTERS IV Box Set. The Top Secrecy album finally saw the light of day because of the Japanese Box Set release. And in fact it was because of Top Secrecy that the Box Set materialized, kind of a catch 22. I originally agreed for the first three albums to be released on CD in Japan and it was only after we started talking about bonus tracks that I sent them the Top Secrecy album, which they couldn’t believe we had and was never released, so they insisted on having the entire album. Our Japanese label then decided to make all the CD’s available together as a Box Set. Which I thought was a great idea. It was from the success of the Box Set that our European label decided to release Top Secrecy in Europe because of the positive fan reaction.
Q: You added 2 bonus tracks – “In Foreign Skies” and “Life In My Hands”. What do you recall of recording these songs? [You are right, they do show a more progressive influence, especially In Foreign Skies which reminds me of Rush’s 2112.]
A: When I first started writing songs I delved into writing very progressive material. I was very much influence by the British prog scene at the time, Yes, Genesis, and Gentle Giant. This material was fun to write because the sky was the limit. It was a way to explore a lot of styles and textures without having to restrict my songwriting parameters. Eventually, I started to focus in on a style that I felt comfortable writing and performing in and that grew into the birth of SANTERS. In Foreign Skies and Life In My Hands were both written when I was about eighteen and recorded just before the sessions began for the Shot Down In Flames album. Once all the Shot Down In Flames tracks were done I had to choose which songs would appear on the record. It was hard to pick but in the end we settled on the first half of the album with the more rock “song” format and the second half using more of the progressive tunes. In Foreign Skies and Life In My Hands were by far the most progressive sounding for what the album was like as a whole, and so they didn’t make the album. Plus, back in the days when vinyl was king you couldn’t put more than forty minutes of music on an album because you’d lose a lot of sound quality and volume level.
Q: Are there other tracks [outtakes] possibly still on tapes from other sessions that could be released in the future?
A: I have a lot of songs in different states of completion, and some people might even think that they should be released, but I see them as sketches. I’d rather work on new songs. That’s what’s inspiring me right now.
Q: How has the initial response been to the Cold Fusion release?
A: We’ve released Cold Fusion in select stores and to some international distributers and the response has been excellent so far. We’ve just signed a deal with Bullseye Records of Canada and “Cold Fusion” is scheduled to be released across the country on May 21, 2002.
Q: How did the first reunion gig feel? How did you think it went, and how have the show[s] since been? Is there still a good audience out there for you guys? And do you have plans for many more gigs or a tour?
A: I guess there was a certain amount of apprehension before we got together to rehearse (fear of the unknown and all), but we’ve always had a healthy respect for one another, as human beings and as musicians, so, in fact once we stuck the first chord together again it was smiles all around. I think the hiatus has really been a good thing for all of us. We’ve all continued to pursue our love of music, and the miles we’ve put behind us seem to have given us a cohesion that is even stronger than we had before. I think in the past the diversions of the road sometimes got in the way when we were playing together as a band. Now, it’s very clear that the music’s the important thing and that’s super positive for me, and I think for Mark and Laz too.
The fan reaction and support to our reunion has really been fantastic. It great to talk to people who were fans in the beginning but never got a chance to see us live, and even those who saw every show we played when we came to town. It’s awesome for them that we’re playing together again, and some are getting a chance to see us for the first time, which they never thought would happen. It’s very gratifying to get responses like that, especially from younger fans who are really into “live” music. With the advent of “watching” music on TV as opposed to “listening” to music or grooving to a live scene, it’s awesome to see the enthusiasm people have for bands who write their own songs and sing and play their own instruments – live! What a concept! We’re booking more shows in Ontario right now and we’re also working on supporting “Cold Fusion” in other parts of Canada as well.
Q: What’s the status of the new album? Will it be all your own songs? Any covers? What direction, sound, etc.. can fans expect? Any song titles or stories you can give out yet?
A: I’m writing the album right now. The songs reflect a sense of fun and energy that was the cornerstone of the SANTERS sound. In fact, I want the songs on the new album to show the energy that the band puts out when we play live. We tapped into that energy on some songs in the studio on the earlier albums and that’s the kind of sound I want the new SANTERS album to have.
Q: When will we see the new album and is there a label deal or plan ? [Got a album title yet?]
A: A lot of it is ready to record. We’ve just got to get our schedules in sync and lay it down.
Q: Will you follow up with a tour or selected live gigs?
A: We usually start with selective live gigs, but then that can turn into a tour, so we’ll see.
Q: Do you have any future plans to do another solo album such as ‘Revitalize’?
A: Yes, definitely! I love to write songs and record them in the studio. It’s something I think I’ll always do until I die because it’s a part of who I am and how I express myself. I also love to explore new musical ideas and avenues and that’s what my solo career is all about. When I write songs I don’t intentionally write SANTERS songs, I simply write songs. It’s only after I let them channel themselves do I take a step back and ask myself “what kind of song is this?” And sometimes it’s obvious to me that they would sound just great with Mark, Laz and myself hammering them out. The others get and deserve more of an open palette to bring them to life.
Q: There seems to be a real comeback of classic Canuck rock with new albums and gigs by the likes of Moxy, April Wine, Carl Dixon [great album BTW!], Helix, Trooper, [and not to mention a 3/5ths Foot In Coldwater reunion!] .. etc… How do you see the current scene of old Canuck bands still surviving?
A: I think we all have very strong and loyal fans. That being said I think it’s important to grow artistically and try to reach new fans as well. I’m very flattered when I get Emails from people who are just discovering SANTERS for the first time and say they can’t believe our first albums were recorded in the ’80’s because they don’t sound like the ’80’s. That’s a testament to the fact that we have been, are and always will be masters of our own musical destiny. That is what’s important to us as artists. Trends and styles are always changing way too quickly anyway.
Q: Has the rejuvenation of the older bands played any part in your decision to get the original Santers band back together, play and record again?
A: Bands rejoining isn’t a new phenomenon. It’s what the band does after rejoining that matters. If you said to me “Hey Rick, why don’t you get SANTERS back together and just play all the old songs again?” That really wouldn’t interest me on it’s own. There’s no challenge in that. But, writing a bunch of new material that SANTERS would do a great job recording, and releasing a new album with all the original members…. now that’s exiting to me. It’s a great thing when bands find it in themselves to rekindle the passion for their music, but that’s a very personal commitment that a artist needs to make, to themselves and to the other band members. The SANTERS reunion is something that evolved very naturally. We’ve all been writing and recording with other artists and doing solo albums over the past few years and I think we’ve got a deeper appreciation for each other now, and that’s what’s motivated our getting back together.
Q: Tell us a bit about www.santers.com ; Who designed, etc. and what fans can find there?
A: I started santers.com a few years back, but it’s Rick Lazaroff who has developed into a fantastic web designer who convinced me that we needed to update the SANTERS site and he wanted to do it. He runs www.wasaga.com and has been specializing in web design for many years. So, he and I got together and designed a web site that would give fans a place to get up to date information about the band, concert announcements, news, new music etc. It’s also a place where you can listen to and buy SANTERS music.
Q: How do you feel about the internet’s use on the music scene these days, where as in the old days you had to rely more on record companies and pr people. !?
A: The Internet is great resource tool to get fast and up to date information. I think it’s very cool to check out bands and their music online and support them by buying their CD’s online, especially from bands who want to remain independent from the major label thing. I think it’s a great addition to live concerts, radio, TV and the press.
Q: What are you listening to these days? Old, new? Any current favorite albums?
A: I’m always checking out new bands and a lot of them are sitting right square in the hard rock vein, and it’s nice to “hear” again. Some of the new bands that I’m listening to that weave this sense of melody and hard rock are Creed, Puddle of Mudd and Nickelback. In my opinion there are only two types of music, good music and bad music. Good music is inspired and reflects the musicians passion. Bad music is dull and boring and predictable because it’s uninspired and has another agenda to meet which is not passionate. So, it doesn’t matter to me if music is so called “old” or “new” I listen for the passion, the creativity and the expression. That’s where I get a lot of my inspiration from, good music. I think the survival of music depends upon people listening for good music with their ears… not less with their eyes.
Q: Can you give me a few of your favorite drummers? Any big influences?
A: John Bonham, Ian Paice, Neil Peart, Tommy Aldridge, Bill Bruford, Buddy Rich, Simon Kirke, Jack DeJohnette.
Q: What bands did you grow up on?
A: Beethoven, Beatles, CCR, Johnny & Edgar Winter, Deep Purple, The Guess Who, Yes, King Crimson, Rush, AC/DC
Q: Can you give me a Top 10 list of fave albums?
A: I can’t pick a top ten because there’s just too many great albums. It’s like apples and oranges.
Q: Aside from playing with Rick prior to forming Santers, did you have any other gigs?
A: We pretty much played music together from day one so there really wasn’t any other gigs.
Q: How did you get along playing in the same band as your brother for so long, and playing music he’d written? I take it you guys got along pretty good for brothers? No sibling rivalry? 🙂
A: Our musical influences were similar growing up so as far as personalities and original music go, it was very easy to agree on just about everything, except for the odd flying beer bottle! I’d say we got along well compared to some of the stories I’ve heard from other bands. For instance, how could you have a fist fight with the drunken bass player at 4:00 am after a raging party and then go up on stage that night and rock? I just don’t get it!
Q: Rick wrote all the Santers music, did you [do you] ever write at all?
A: Rick brought the ideas to the table and collectively we worked on the intro ideas, solo sections, arrangements etc. I do write and look forward to creating new songs together again.
Q: What are your favorite Santers tunes – be they as songs and as far As your performance goes?
A: Shot Down in Flames, Caught in the Wind, Paths of Heart, Time After Time, Mistreatin’ Heart, Backstreets, Mystical Eyes, Two Against the World, Dog without a Home, Road to Morocco, Can’t Shake You, Black Magic, Baby Blue, Dreaming, Come and Get it, Top Secrecy, Leigh Ann….. just to name a few.
Q: Favorite album?
A: All 4 of them! Again, it’s like apples and oranges because all the albums individually represent different stages of development; be it musicianship, attitude, energy, lyric ideas etc.
Q: Can you give me a few personal highlights from the Santers days?
A: Well the Ozzy Osbourne tour was definitely the highlight for us! I can still remember going up on stage at the Ottawa Civic Arena and just thinking ” This is unbelievable! “. We were really flying musically at that point, you know, on our way so to speak. On the last date at the PNE Coliseum, Ozzy’s crew turned on the house lights before the encore was done, I don’t know if they felt threatened or if they were playing a joke, but we sure had the fans that night. The U.K. tour after the Racing Time album was special as well because the people and the attitudes were much different from those in North America. We had great responses and the fan base still exists today. I always thought our music was a little more Europe friendly. Those Brits sure do know how to how to have fun. Of course the southern states enjoyed our brand of rock also and those hot climates are great for Rock & Roll. New York state, Buffalo, Rochester……do you have a couple of weeks?
Q: After the Santers band split what did you do prior to joining Carl Dixon’s band?
A: I worked with a female singer called Carmelle for about a year, who was a super person and a great performer. Laz and I teamed up and formed Cold Shot with Steve Shelski and later re-formed Bratt with Darlene Watters singing. That was a fun band; played a lot of rippin’ rock tunes.
Q: How did you hook up with Carl ? Were you in any of his pre “One” bands?
A: I was introduced to Carl Dixon through Steve when we played in Cold Shot. He put together a band called Rough And Ready and toured briefly. Then it evolved into the Carl Dixon Band.
Q: How was the experience recording One compared to the Santers’ stuff?
A: Carl asked me to come in and do a bunch of background vocals, which turned out great and gave me a lot of confidence.
Q: Any favorite tracks from that album?
A: Taste of Love, Run Reckless, More than a Memory, Love is Waiting.
Q: You’ve gigged around for years with Carl, any of his tunes or Coney tunes that particularly like playing live?
A: Hey Operator was a no brainer for me because it could have easily been a Santers tune so live that one always worked. Run Reckless was the tune that shifted the whole band into 5th gear. Devil’s Deck is another.
Q: Any stories from Carl gigs/days?
A: More stories eh!? Well we were always bad boys at Lu-Lu’s a club I really liked. We did shows there with Bad Company, Alanna Myles, Sass Jordan, Max Webster, Steppenwolf, Nazareth just to name a few, but the ’93 tour in Germany had to be the highlight. We played shows in all different types of clubs and met a lot of great people. I remember almost getting arrested in Winterthur, Switzerland with Mike Hall (guitar) and Howie Bertolo (Keys). We were walking down the street, and next thing you know the Swiss cops race up to us, jump out of the cruiser and start hassling us. They thought we had just broken in to a local business because we fit the description. Thank God I can speak German because if I didn’t things could’ve gotten very ugly. Do you have another couple of weeks?
Q: How did the sessions for the new Carl Dixon album go? This album was started essentially back in 95 / 96 [I have a tape of some of the demos from him].
A: Recording Into the Future was a different approach altogether. Carl was after the Phil Spector sound and doubling the drum tracks was very challenging since a lot of the material was new to me and rehearsal time was almost nil. All of it was done with just myself and Carl engineering.
Q: How do you think “Into The Future” compares to “One”? What tracks and performances stand out on it for you?
A: Apples and oranges again, both rock but in a different way. Fave tracks- Into the Future, Hot Streak (Zeppelinish funk rock) Strange way to Live (rippin’solo section)Point of no Return, Busted and the Robin Trower classic River.
Q: Have you done any other session jobs or band work aside from Carl Dixon’s band in the past decade?
A: I played on some tracks that made it to Emm Gryner’s ” Distrust it ” album and various unreleased demos.
Q: How was it getting back together as Santers? And what are your thoughts on the new upcoming album?
A: It was great to play the old stuff again and we all something new to the songs because we all had newer influences. The new record presents a whole lot of exciting challenges and the maturity of the musicians will shine through.
Q: Can you give me a few of your fave bass players, and biggest influences?
A: Jaco Pastorius. Jack Bruce. Miroslav Vitous. Dave Holland.
Q: Do you play guitar as well? [if so, how did you get on to the bass?]
A: I play guitar a bit but I wouldn’t call myself a guitarist. I actually started playing drums as a kid. My father is Alex Lazaroff, well known Canadian Jazz drummer extraordinaire. I switched to bass when I was 10.
[ed note: RIP Alex Lazaroff, 2008]
Q: Favorite bands growing up? Can you give me a Top 10 album list?
A: My earliest influences were the Beatles and all the Soul and R&B recordings from Motown and Stax Records. Then Hendrix and Cream. Then on to the prog bands of the seventies; Yes, King Crimson and Gentle Giant. And all through that was a steady diet of Jazz. Miles Davis, Chick Corea, Thelonious Monk. Top albums in no particular order. “Milestones”, Miles Davis. Infinite Search, Miroslav Vitous (the best bass album ever recorded). “Close to the Edge”, Yes. “Court of the Crimson King, King Crimson. “Weather Report”, Weather Report’s first release.
Q: What sort of bands were you involved in prior to Santers? Any recordings?
A: I played in Rock Bands, Blues Bands, Dance and Funk bands; I think they called it Disco. The most notable band I played for was the Snakes, a blues band featuring Fred Mandel on keys who has gone on to perform and record with Queen, Elton John and Alice Cooper.
Q: What do you recall of your days with a guy named Rob Seagrove?
A: Rob Seagrove? Oh yeah he was a pimp that use to work out of Montreal. No hold on. That was somebody else. I played with Rob in a cover band in the seventies. We played crappy commercial stuff but even then we were throwing in some fusion to keep ourselves amused. I remember playing Scatterbrain with him, a wild odd metre tune off Jeff Beck’s Blow by Blow. Rob’s a great guitar player and a nice guy. I lost touch with him when I moved a couple of times.
[ed note: RIP Robert Seagrove, 2015]
Q: What are your favorite Santers tunes from the catalogue? Anything that you’re proud of as far as your own performance goes?
A: I like High Risk, Too Young to Die from Guitar Alley and am especially fond of the live tracks on the euro release of Top Secrecy. For me live is where it’s at. That’s how the band sounds.
Q: You and Mark are a very tight rhythm section, very heavy, and a huge part of the Santers sound. What can you tell me about how you guys get along musically and how things work so well there?
A: Mark’s got great metre and is solid. That makes it easy for me to lock in. You can’t play a game of push and pull. Others drummers have commented on how easy it is to play with me. It’s just a matter of adjusting to their individual feel and if they have good metre it works quite well.
Q: Do you write songs at all? Have you contributed any to other projects?
A: Yes I do. Mostly instrumental stuff. I would say mostly Jazz influenced atmospheric stuff. You know, great background music for a travel show or something. I plan on doing a real self indulgent solo CD if I can ever get my home studio completed.
Q: Any favorite Santers’ days stories and personal highlights from the old days?
A: I guess the Ozzy tour and the tour of England in support of Magnum. The shows at Massey Hall for sure. That would be my favorite venue to play.
Q: What did you do in the years following the break up of the Santers band? Any other bands, recordings, etc … ?? [Details!]
A: I played in several cover bands after our split. In 1990 I recorded a Jazz LP with the Orhan Demir Trio. It got great reviews in the U.S. from some fine publications. He’s an amazing jazz guitarist from Turkey who lives in Toronto now. Hopefully I will get to do some more work with him.
Q: Are you involved in any musical projects at the moment and/or do you have any plans for the future aside from Santers?
A: I also play in Jazz combo playing mostly standards and hope to record some of that and hopefully do another CD with Orhan Demir and maybe finally get a solo CD completed. That would be about it.
Triumph‘s ‘Classics‘ album is to be re-released As A Double LP, Pressed On 180g Silver Vinyl. Originally released 30 years ago Triumph‘s ‘Classics‘ celebrated the legendary Canadian power trio’s greatest hits. And now, on December 13th, 2019, Triumph’s 13-track ‘Classics’ will once again hit the racks (via Round Hill/Triumph Catalog), and all of the expected […]
Blue Coupe is the classic rock trio of Joe Bouchard & Albert Bouchard (ex Blue Oyster Cult) and Dennis Dunaway (original Alice Cooper, Hall of Famer and author)
November 9 happens to be Joe’s birthday and on November 11 the brand new Blue Coupe album – “Eleven Even”, the band’s third – will be released! I love the bright cover art and the first song released via YouTube just a few nights ago! Very much looking forward to this.
I’ve included the link to the brand new track, my previous interviews with Joe, Albert, Dennis, and the late John Elwood Cook (check ’em out), and classic Blue Coupe tracks
Also check out- http://www.bluecoupeband.com
As I recently wrote about, Canadian rocker Carl Dixon [of Coney Hatch fame] has a new solo album to be released in November. The album “Unbroken” is his first solo rock album in 18 years. It is also, as Carl details, very much a collaboration with German musician Robby Boebel [of Frontline & Phantom 5]. Below Carl discusses the making of the new album and the songs, as well as drops plans for future projects and shows.
For more on Carl and ordering info for Unbroken go to – http://www.carldixon.com
Also, find him on Facebook.
What initiated the whole project – to record another rock album? [when we spoke after CH4 you said you didn’t know if the world was ready for another Carl Dixon solo rock album] 🙂
I was ready to do another Rock album now; I like all music if it’s good. Somebody asked me nicely! There’s a German label called AOR Heaven, and it’s run by Georg Seigl. I met Georg at Firefest 2011 in Nottingham England, when Coney Hatch performed there. He was the first to offer Coney Hatch a deal for a reunion album. We ended up doing it with Frontiers instead, but I stayed in touch with Georg and it was his request for me to do a new Carl Dixon album.
How did idea to with Robby Boebel come about? Why let someone else produce as opposed to doing it yourself?
I stayed in touch with Georg and it was his request for me to do a new Carl Dixon album with Robby – who is a well-known guy in Germany and Europe. That was the deal – to work with Robby as the producer; although in fact we co-produced to a large extent. Robby said to me “I don’t like this word ‘Producer'”
Did you guys ever meet in person or was everything done through correspondence / computer?
It began as e-mails with song ideas attached, then we started having Skype calls to work things out but we’ve never actually stood in the same room, no.
What all did Robby Boebel do – as far as co-writing, guitar, keyboards?
Robby worked up instrumental song demos, then did the final guitars and keyboards after the songs were written.
Can I assume you wrote most of the lyrics!?
Yes, I wrote all lyrics. It was easier than I expected, Robby kept putting really good music ideas in front of me.
Where & when did you record your parts [vocals, guitars]? How were the final tracks put together?
There’s no guitar playing by me on this album. All the vocals were recorded here at my studio and sent to Germany; “Away ya go kids, have a nice trip!”.
Robby mixed it all at his place in Nuremberg.
Strange feeling not playing any of the guitars!?
It was actually a neat change to not have so much responsibility, but rather enjoy responding to someone else’s ability.
Drumming was shared by Mark Santer and Dylan Gowan – how did that work out? [Dylan related to Lawrence?]
It worked out fine; neither drummer could commit to the full slate of songs, so I split it up between them. Dylan is Lawrence’s son.
Talk about some of the tracks –
My Love & Hopes For You – closest thing to a ballad here. Personal topic ?
I won’t go into the personal story behind it, although every song is personal to the man or woman who writes it. All My Love and Hopes is an expression of the longing we feel when we lose touch with somebody we care about but still feel the love for them.
Nothing Lasts Forever – about Coney days. Love the use of CH titles. Did you have a bit of fun with this one?
Yeah I really enjoyed writing and singing Nothing Lasts Forever. I hadn’t intended to write “The Story of Coney Hatch” when we began this album but the Hatch guys are among my oldest friends. I guess I was feeling a bit nostalgic as I worked on a rock album without them, so one of Robby’s music ideas just lead me there.
This Isn’t The End – about anyone?
This Isn’t The End actually sprang from a couple of lines I had written on the back of an envelope back when Coney Hatch was winding down in the 80’s: “Brothers we became, and brothers we will stay, but brothers now the time has come for me to go my own way”. I wrote the rest of the song after I heard the music track from Robby, and it’s a bittersweet kind of feeling in the lyric. “I’ve gotta go, but I’m sure gonna miss you”.
Keep The Faith? Unbroken? – Songs inspired by current happenings out there [!?]
Yes, especially Unbroken. That was the first song I wrote for this project and it is definitely a response to the maddening events of our times. Keep The Faith, the key to that song is the line “No matter how we’re tested, hope will endure”.
Drive Just Drive – Love the harder-edged tracks, a song of frustrations?
There’s a long line of Rock songs that are saying “Let’s Get Outta Here!” Or maybe it’s just me…
Summer Nights – fun tune, the most ’80s feel on here [?]
If this was the 80’s Summer Nights would be the first single to radio from this album! I love the story in the lyric.
Every Step of The Way & Bowl Me Over – My 2 faves here.
Good choices. Most of the lyrics on this album are inspired by the feelings I have for my Australian wife Helen, and the stories of what we go through together.
Can’t Love A Memory is the most recognizable Carl Dixon tune here – and easiest to pick as lead off track — Fair statement? Where did this track come from?
Funny enough, Can’t Love A Memory was the final song written for the album, and for sure one of the strongest. Robby and I really got into a rhythm of understanding each other in the songwriting as the process went along. That one came out when we realized we needed one more song, and I consider it one of the best ones here. It’s about recognizing that being stuck in the past or on an old feeling is pretty unhelpful when it comes to building your life. Life is meant to be lived forward.
What other projects on the horizon – solo or band stuff?
Always new things on the horizon! I’m compiling an album of unreleased recordings and demos, kind of like Pete Townshend’s “SCOOP” releases, that will bring to light some good things that never made it to albums yet.
Robby and I are already discussing a follow-up to Unbroken for a year from now.
Canadian distribution for Unbroken – will it be in Sunrise? Who’s distributing here? Be cool to see it on the shelf!
I don’t know any details yet, but Sunrise is a good idea. Album distribution is such a scattershot thing these days!
Do you foresee plans to play this material live -be it here or in Europe [if there are any invites]?
Yes, I’m working on European dates next year for this. There doesn’t seem to be a Canadian market for such shows.
Do you think all the changes that you went through after your accident, and with your recovery — that your outlook on life has changed in that you’re more open and more willing to take on more chances and try new projects that perhaps you may not have considered years ago?
Certainly it has. I am open to everything that might be enjoyable now. Life is fleeting. Why hold yourself back? I dabble in a lot of things, excel at a few. It’s fun.
Happen to have a ‘bucket list’ of players you’d like to work with [within reason]?
Many of the people I would have put on such a list have left the planet. Simon Kirke – I’d love to record some tracks with him on drums. Lee Aaron – she’s an old friend and I’d love to record a duet with her.
I wrote a song once that I hoped to get Rik Emmitt and Lawrence Gowan to sing with me; still waiting for that one.
What are you in to [listening] these days?
Miles Davis – all phases of his output; Baroque masterpieces; Bad Company- Straight Shooter; UNBROKEN!
It has been 18 years since Carl Dixon released his 2nd album of rockers – “Into The Future” was a solid follow up to his debut “One” from ’93. Much has happened since then, including a near fatal car wreck, a string of non-hard rock albums, sporadic Coney Hatch reunion shows, and reunited Coney Hatch studio album 6 years ago! Oh, and an autobiography! Life has changed a heck of a lot, and Carl’s taken up different projects, but rest assured – for those of us that still get out to any Coney Hatch show we can, and love throwing those albums – as well as Carl’s first 2 solo albums on in the car and blasting them out – you will be thrilled to hear “Unbroken”! 11 brand new songs – no filler – just plenty of hooks, melodies, memorable choruses, and lots of guitar driven rock n roll .
Unbroken is a collaboration between Carl Dixon and Robert Boebel – producer. Boebel is from the German band Frontline [songwriter, guitarist, keyboards…], so no doubt plays a major part in the outcome here. Mark Santer [of Santers band] is the only player retained from the ‘One’ days here, Dylan Gowan shares drum duties, and Hutch Bauer [also of Frontline] fills bass duties.
“Can’t Love A Memory” is the lead off track on Unbroken, an easily likeable uptempo rocker. “Nothing Lasts Forever” is Carl reflecting on his ’80s Coney Hatch days, a nice tribute to the band and it’s few years on a few major tours and mtv; a pretty honest and cool rocker, i like the Coney titles dropped in as the song fades out. This album really rolls on smooth, with a variety of tunes that keep listeners coming back, nothing I want to hit the forward button on! Favorites include “Bowl Me Over”, “Every Step Of The Way”, “This Isn’t The End”, and “Drive Just Drive”. “All My Love and Hopes For You” is a personal song, and the only ballad here [and it’s not too soft]. Unbroken doesn’t fade off, as tracks like “Keep The Faith” and “Unbroken” – both cool rockers, with a message.
Anyone who’s enjoyed Carl’s previous rock albums and his work with Coney Hatch won’t want to miss this. He still has a lot to say musically and lyrically, with the performances, unmistakable vocals, and bright production here – [for me] it’s the strongest of his solo releases; I’m looking forward to many hours of this in the car CD player. Canuck rock is still alive and well!
The new release from Bernie Shaw & Dale Collins is now out and available on vinyl & CD, download, etc.. It is a solid album, and definitely something Uriah Heep won’t want to miss — but you can read my review elsewhere around here.
In this interview – Bernie and Dale answer questions about the songs, the recording, and how Too Much Information came together.
Enjoy the read.
The Picking Locks CD came out 20 years ago. Wasn’t it always sort of ‘the plan’ to work those songs in to a full length album?
Dale : yes and no … there was initially a plan to follow them up with an album of new material… but schedules kept making it difficult.
So, it has been 6 years since you guys were in contact to complete a full album!? what initiated that? And how did the record deal come about?
Bernie : I was approached by rep of Cherry Red Records to see if l was interested in recording a album outside of Uriah Heep. My first reaction was to contact Dale and see if he would be interested in doing a whole album with me. Like before , he would write the songs, l would do all the vocals and harmonies. So it turned into a ‘project’ album for the both of us , not a ‘solo’ album.
Dale : I was approached by Daniel Earnshaw, and Bernie 6 years to the day before our release and asked if I would be interested in doing an album . It was originally pitched to me as putting re masters of our EP tracks and single along side some tracks Bernie did with another member of the former ” In Transit”.
I was really not interested in such a mixed tracks idea and responded that Bernie and I had always planned to do an album of our own, and if we make an album that is what it should be.
After some discussions and planning it was decided we would indeed do our own album and eventually it was decided that it would include re recordings of some of our previous works along with some new songs.
Dale: Since Picking Locks, what have you been doing musically? Any other projects? Gigs? Bands?
Dale: Yes I have another recording project here in Canada , as well as some cover bands I play with now and then.
My other recording project is called Sleeping Dogs Lie. It was formed after Bernie and I did our first recordings and includes the drummer Don Restall from In Transit and the EP, and six of the songs on Too Much Information, as well as singer /songwriter Trevor Richardson who co wrote the lyrics for Alone from Too Much Information. We toured for some time including events for Canadian Biker Magazine. We also did some recordings and released two singles early on. I then relocated to another province of Canada which put the project in hibernation for a few years.
Bernie: there’s been some lulls in Heep’s recording time [such as from Sonic Origami to Wake The Sleeper]. Had this project or any other side projects not been brought up during that period?
Bernie : It might seem like a ‘lull’ to you, but in actual fact, that is when the internet went mad, Napster was being sued by Metallica, the whole music business went nuts. Nobody was really signing anybody, record companies were amalgamating , going bust. The entire music scene was a mess. We had all these songs in the bag , and no home. So believe me, if Heep weren’t being offered a deal, I sure as heck wasn’t either.
First, pretty eye-catching and clever album cover art. can you tell me a bit about where this came from and explain it a bit? Was it previously existing or created for this project?
Bernie : No, we were just very lucky. We had the idea of ‘too much information’ being the name of the album, so l went on the web. Public art pages. Hundreds of them. I spent hours looking at literally thousands of images. And then l saw ‘him’. The rusty mechano man sitting in the middle of nowhere . Just wanting to get away from it ALL. WHY? TOO MUCH INFORMATION ! it fit like a glove to what l thought the message was. It’s not metal. It’s not dated, it just GOOD ART. and l love it… very classy, and puts the message across.
Dale : I am very pleased with the way the art work turned out although I had something very different in mind at the outset. I had envisioned the concept of All The Kings Men and a picture of an old castle. This was based on the fact that we were making this album from 3 different areas of the globe. I being in the prairies of Canada, Don being on the west coast of Canada, and Bernie and Daniel being in the UK, as “all the kings men were spread across the globe.
However when Bernie discovered the current art work and suggested the title Too Much Information , it seemed to fit just right. The image of the man holding his head as if overwhelmed with information was a great fit with the title track ; Too Much Information. I love the image and brightness of the cover that was chosen.
Hey Jimi and Here We Go were both on Picking Locks, and [I Believe] Sad Song – were all written at the same time [!?]. Did you make any major changes to them for the album?
Bernie : Not really, a good song is a good song. You don’t have to change it. Maybe just re-record it with better equipment in a better studio etc. But it pretty well stayed the same. I might have tried a few different harmonies , but really thats about it.
Dale : In fact I made a serious effort to be faithful to the original songs when recording the instrument tracks. Before composing solos for the new versions I went back and re learned note for note the original solos I had done to be sure I knew them exactly right. In this way I could be sure that even if I re wrote parts of those solos, they would retain their original intent and emotional direction. I also stayed as close as possible to the original arrangements. This was important to me in part because the songs had a long standing history with our fans, which I did not wish to betray.
Sad Song seems to be a perfect type of ballad for Bernie’s voice and might’ve been a big radio hit at a time. What can you tell me about this song – lyrically, and putting it together [great production]?
Bernie : I’ve always loved a good ballad. Especially if l can get under its skin and make it mine. That song is just one of ‘those’ songs. The message, melody, lyric. That’s my cup a tea! With a song like that, it’s not what you put IN to it, it’s what you leave OUT. let the song breath…
Loved the way it turned out.
Dale : Actually Sad Song was written years before Bernie and I met as a result of something I witnessed while living in Victoria. A tragic accidental event that took the life of a young woman, and involved a young man quite like the character of the one described in the lyrics.
On the original version I played the piano track, and felt it was lacking in expression. This time around a good friend and wonderful piano player named Jason Gardenits came in and put down the piano for the song. I Love what he did !!
Alone is my favorite track here. An almost Iron Maiden-ish intro, but quite a nice melodic tune. Where did this song come from and co-written with?
Dale : Alone was part of the Sleeping Dogs Lie live show but SDL never recorded the song. It always got a especially good reception at the shows. SDL singer. Trevor Richardson originally wrote the lyrics , of which some were re written for the recorded version on the album. It is a basically a song about a broken relationship and moving on from it, as well as the need to move on from it, and that time when the recognition of that need becomes clear to a person or indeed both persons in the relationship.
So Many Times is a great opener; love the guitar intro. This is the one song co-credited to both of you. Can you tell me a bit about where the guitar intro came from, lyrical idea, and how this song worked out between the 2 of you writing-wise?
Bernie : The song is basically about self doubt. But with the help and guidance or believe of a friend, it can all come together . But it can also be so ‘ in your face’ that you can’t even see it. I was in a very ‘Doobie Brothers’ head space on the lyric. You know when they used to almost to on a spiritual song? ‘Jesus is just alright with me ‘. ‘jericho’. Finding something, but then just letting it slip from your hand.
Dale : I had originally written the song with lyrics. However the only part of the lyrics I liked after reflection was the chorus ( “So Many Time I found You” ) That line seemed to strike a note with Bernie, and we both liked the song musically, so we decided to include it and the rest of the lyrics were written by Bernie.
I recorded four different guitar solo intro bits and could not decide which one to use. So I played them all for my fiancé Michaela, and she picked the one that is on the album.
With reference to the title track, and a few others – where do lyrical ideas come from?
Dale : Lyric ideas , for me, always come from life and life experiences. I think that lyrics are basically stories and stories are usually best when told in a way that the listener can identify with them because he/she can relate them to some experience or emotion that they them selves, or some one they know , have been through.
Too Much Information is about seeing some one in a positive light while forgiving the dark or unpleasant sides to their character, and reaching that point at which one knows Too Much Information and can no longer view that person in the same positive light despite trying to. It also speaks to the effort to forgive or ignore those darks sides until a point where that is no longer possible, and self preservation becomes more important.
Hey Jimi is a kind of question as to what Jimi Hendrix would think of the immense legacy he left despite his apparent , from some accounts, wonder about why all the excitement over what he was doing. It is also a tribute to that legacy.
Here We Go is about war and the sadness and senseless destruction that comes of it. . The ending was extended for the album version, making the song longer, which considering man kinds’ never ending return to war as a means of trying to solve or change things, seems fitting.
Was the music on TMI completely done before any vocals were recorded? Was there much discussion on details like harmonies, final mixes, track running order? [How was this stuff decided upon?]
Bernie : Completely independent. Dale wrote and recorded all the backing tracks in Canada, then l took them into the studio the Heep have recorded the last few albums in, with the engineer who’s worked with me for 12 years and we came up with lyric lines, some new, some true to the original, the l came up with all the harmonies and bv’s on the spot. Good fun, great experience, but boy, not as easy as when l had Phil Lanzon just firing them off the top of his head. Very proud of the outcome though.
Dale : Bernie was of course familiar with the four songs we had recorded earlier and so he knew all the vocal parts and took those songs from that point vocally. For the new material I sent demos over with me singing the songs to demo the vocal melodies I had composed for the lyrics. From there Bernie works the melodies and phrasing a bit to suit his style and writes all the back up harmony vocal melodies.
What can you tell me about the other players used on the album and your connections to them?
Bernie : I’ve known Don Restall most of my life. Met him in elementary school, and he’s always been a drummer, and a damn good one! Great backing singer too. Good combo. We’ve been in a hundred garage bands together over my teenage years and before! We were in ‘In Transit’ together, so we know each other inside and out. So good to have him on this album..
Dale : I met Don and Bernie in 1996, when I got a call to audition for the band In Transit, which was a cover show Don and Bernie were building to do some shows during Bernie’s Christmas time visit to Victoria, BC where his family lived. Over the course of doing a few shows together discussions took place about doing some recording, which led to the EP Picking Locks.
On a very interesting and pleasant note for me, the song Alone has 3 of the four original members from my old band London Times, from many years before. Drummer Kelly Studola and bassist Neil van Dyjk , and myself were the original members of London Times which was a four piece rock cover band doing Zepplin, Aerosmith, Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Rush, Max Webster and the like. We had a great singer named Kevin Fullerton who could sing all those high singer parts and the band toured for years with great success in two different version.
Jason Gardenits is a keyboardist/ piano player from my area who I have worked with in Sleeping Dogs Lie. I just love his piano work on Sad Song and Hey Jimi.
Mark Ammar, who played drums on Just A Little Bit, is the drummer who I grew up with from grade 7 through high school and we as kids spent tons and tons of hours jamming and learning to play together. Just A Little Bit struck me as having a kind of Zeppish feel to it and knowing Mark as I do I felt he was the right drummer for that song.
Do either of you have any other projects on the go? [Bernie – aside from Heep!]
Dale : I Always have some musical on the go. I am planning an album and hope to begin work on it as soon as things settle down a bit. I have been very busy with this release.
What new and/or old albums or artists are each of you listening to these days?
Bernie : My listening spectrum is pretty wide. Lyle Lovett, to Lady Antebellum. Patricia Barber to John5. The Blind Boys of Alabama, to Sammy Hagar and the Circle. Damn Yankees, to Jeff Beck. And YES. I’m a Nicleback fan. Love Chad’s lyrics. They are “real” and to me , that’s what counts!!! Oh ya…. and they’re Canadian !
Dale : I have some music, that for me will ever be in my list of favorite listening – albums like Dark Side Of The Moon, Crime Of The Century, most Led Zeppelin, Big Generator from Yes, and far too many to list here… but I am also a fan of Foo Fighters, Vdelli, and many newer bands. I try, when I can, to stay in touch with what is new in rock music; I believe it helps keep me from being in a writing rut.
Outsider Rock 