British singer/guitarist John Verity (ex Argent, Phoenix) has recently released a 4 track disc of acoustic tracks. The songs, previously released, are all stripped down and re-done along with guests Max Milligan (acoustic/slide guitar) and Roger Inniss (bass). These are excellent new ‘unplugged & unhinged’ versions, particularly “Broken Heart”, a favorite from 2020’s Passion album.
If you’ve seen a few of my recent posts you should know that British rock legend John Verity has been very busy lately with new releases from his ’70s post-Argent band PHOENIX, as wel as a new studio album. I’d also re-posted an interview I did with John back in 2000. So here was my chance to dig a bit more in to John’s career, as he talks about ARGENT, PHOENIX, his solo career, and his new and more more recent releases.
*John’s latest releases can be purchased through his website- http://www.johnverity.com
Interested to know how much say / input you had on the 2 ARGENT albums? How were songs brought in and put together?
Recordings for the Circus album were well advanced by the time I joined the band, so material was pretty much decided on.
I didn’t play any guitar on Circus, my contributions were just vocal, as all the basic tracks were completed.
I was involved from day one on Counterpoints but didn’t feel I had anything ready in terms of song material that would fit the project, so I didn’t put anything forward.
I did contribute fully in the recording of the album though, both on guitar, and most of the vocals.
Generally what would happen is prior to the planning of an album everyone in the band could submit demos of songs/material that they felt might fit.
It was clear to me that Counterpoints was going to follow a bit of a Jazz/Rock feel generally and I had nothing that I felt would work.
Of the 2 albums you did, do you have a preference, and what were your favorites off those albums to perform live? Favorite Argent tunes from before your time?
I don’t have a preference, I feel that both albums have their moments, there are some great songs, and some lovely playing from everyone involved.
I wasn’t too familiar with the band before I toured as their opening act. I had been living out of the country for some time, totally focused on my own music and didn’t get to hear Argent stuff until I returned to the UK in 1972. Rod, Russ, and Chris White are amazing writers and their material is great to sing and play so again I have no real favourites as everything in the show was both challenging and satisfying to perform. It was a great time and everyone in the band was as the top of their game.
Did you come to North America with Argent? Any memorable gigs, festivals…?
Yes I toured North America with the band. Always a bit of a whirlwind to be honest with each day melding into the next so it’s hard to remember… I always did prefer the smaller gigs, like the Agora clubs, and the Starwood in LA. I like to see faces!!
With Phoenix, did you guys have a say in the album’s artwork? Very cool cover. Wondering if you’d having any recall on that?
Yes, one of our strict rules on forming the band was that we would have total control.
We usually came up with a concept, then met with a team specializing in album art to bring it to fruition.
The only time this didn’t work was In Full View. We recorded the basic tracks in LA and did a photo shoot for our proposed cover.
On our return to the UK our label, Charisma didn’t like concept and persuaded us to change. It was a mistake!
You had previously told me there was unreleased Argent songs, as well as songs from an aborted reformation. Curious if any of this stuff has ever seen the light of day, or will?
I very much doubt this will resurface. I don’t even know where the tapes are…. Sorry!
That first Phoenix album is a classic guitar rock album, IMO. Can you give me any insight to a few of the songs and the writing & recording of tracks like “Easy”, “Woman Like You”, “From The Ashes” …. ?
Yea, I wrote a lot of the material with live performance in mind. ‘Easy’ for example was meant to be a show opener. I visualized Jim starting with bass line on a darkened stage, then Bob’s big drum fill leading into the main guitar riff. Same with “Woman Like You’, which has dynamics suited to a live show. These two really did worked when we took them on the road. “From the Ashes’ was a song I’d had in my head for while. Jim had been messing around with Rod’s Mellotron and that finally gave me the idea for a mood that would suite the song and then it came together really quickly.
What did the Phoenix set list consist of back then [after debut]? and do any live recordings exist?
You know what? I really can’t remember the setlist. I know we did Easy, Woman Like You, You Got Soul, Are You Ready. I remember we did a drum feature called Dirty Water.
There is a well recorded bootleg from our show in Zurich but I never kept a copy unfortunately.
Can you detail the time and time frame of when the Out Of The Sun album was written and recorded?
We were writing material for Out of the Sun when we were on the road promoting the first Phoenix album. We even did some of the new material in the show.
This was 1977. When we came off the road after touring with Aerosmith we went straight into my home studio to make demos of the songs and pretty soon thereafter into Trident Studios in London to complete the actual album recordings. I asked Rod to play on the album and he has played on a lot of my recordings over the years. We’re still great friends.
Do you recall any clear memories or specifics on the tracks on Out Of The Sun? Any insight in to some of the tracks?
We worked really quickly, meeting each day at my place we would play basic ideas to each other and thrash out arrangements whilst I recorded everything we did.
Next morning we’d start by listening to the previous day’s stuff and choose/reject songs each time until we were happy with enough strong material for an album.
Once I had nice recordings to refer to we’d get our Management to book Trident and we’d start again, fine tuning and laying down the proper album tracks.
How did the making of Out Of The Sun differ from the first Phoenix album? and can you recall how it was put to you that the record company wanted something different?
We worked in the same way as we did the first album. Same studio, same routine except that I wanted to stretch out a bit on a production level. Tying stuff out like real phasing and backwards guitar tracks… I think CBS were worried that what we were doing was out of stride with what was currently happening musically. Record companies tend to follow fashion…
So, where were the tapes for Out Of The Sun for the past 40 years, and can you tell how you came back in to possession of them?
I kept the multi-track tapes for many years. Magnetic tape doesn’t age well, and when I brought the masters out of storage and tried to play them they simply fell apart on the tape machine.
There is a process whereby you bake the tapes and are then able to play them once and copy them but that didn’t work either.
So… I thought they were gone forever…
Then late last year (2021) Steve Rodford (Jim’s Son) called me to say that he’d found some recordings amongst Jim’ stuff. Steve hadn’t looked through everything since Jim had passed, and had spotted a box that looked ‘interesting’. To cut a long story short, I had forgotten that back in the day I had given Jim some mixes of the album when I was working on the tracks at Trident Studios. Jim took them home to listen to and then put them away safely. We all forgot about it. Steve said that in Jim’s writing it said ‘Out Of The Sun’!. So I jumped in my van and drove straight to Steve’s to grab the stuff and check it out. Together with Matthew White I was able to restore the recordings, then bring them to my studio to remaster. You’ve heard the results.
Was there more than just the 8 tracks on the album? Anything left out or any alternate takes?
I’ve used everything…
One thing that’s interesting, is that you joined Argent on Russell’s recommendation [whom you replaced], but over the years you’ve covered some of the songs he wrote, obviously kept in touch, in a distant working relationship. Can you talk a bit about Russell as someone you’ve worked with, a friend or mentor [?]. And Russell as a songwriter, baring in mind all of the classic songs he’s written that ended up being hits for other artists!? I think more people know a few Russ Ballard songs than actually know who Russell is.
I was obviously aware of Russell but didn’t really know him until the late ‘70s when I had a call from his management.
Russ was working in the studio and the engineer had become unwell. Russ had heard about my reputation as an engineer and wondered if I could help him out. That was the beginning of our relationship really and for a time we worked together every day in the studio as Russ wrote and recorded songs. (don’t ask me to list them!! Russ is very prolific.
I learned a lot during that time and have approached Russ for songs when I needed strong material – Phoenix was the first band to record ‘I Surrender’ (That’s another story).
We’re still good friends and talk regularly to put world to rights…
There were a couple of Phoenix resurrections …[or attempts?] over the years. Can you mention a bit about any such shows or attempts to reform?
Bob Henrit was in my band for many years after Phoenix ended, and we did think about doing some Phoenix stuff from time to time.
In 2010 an agency showed an interest in putting some Phoenix dates together and we decided to record an album to fit in with this.
The album ‘Still Burning’ featured Bob & I, with Mark Griffiths on bass and Ian Gibbons on keyboards. We finished it and were preparing to go on the road to promote it when the same agency suddenly announced a tour by ‘Argent – the original line-up’. This came as quite a shock to me of course, so I shelved the Phoenix album and used some of the tracks on my ‘Verity – Rise like the Phoenix’ CD.
Over the last few decades you’ve recoded a lot of albums. Can you touch on some of these more recent ones, such as Zep It Up, My Religion, and Blue To My Soul?
Zep it Up was really just a bit of fun recording a bunch of my favorite Zeppelin tracks.
At the time my studio was in a truck, as I wanted to try recording in different locations/acoustic environments etc.
I was in the Northwest of the UK at the time and was checking out one particular location for rehearsing with my current band – John Clark on drums and Dave Kinley on bass.
It sounded great so I drove the truck there, ran some mic lines in and we spent a few hours messing around recording stuff we liked. In the end we recorded about 14 Zep tracks that day, and I spent another day recording vocals, tidying up and mixing. It became the ‘Zep it Up!’ album.
Soon after that I moved to my current home in the Southeast of England and built my current studio.
I write and record all the time here, with various guests and the guys in my current band lineup, sometimes just by myself.
Every couple of years I put out a new album and tour to promote it.
Over the years my albums have often been a mix of my own material with covers of some of my favourites from other writers.
If I do a cover it is seldom anything like the original…
As of writing, my latest album ‘Passion’ is all originals, it just worked out like that.
I tend to write about the things I care about, such as being in a band, touring and relationships though my stuff can be a little political too – with tongue in cheek…
You released Passion in 2020. I presume this was recorded before the pandemic and lockdowns!?
Yep, my timing is diabolical!
‘Passion’ was released just as the pandemic hit. We were 2 days into the tour and had just played a festival in Scotland when the Lockdown was announced. That was the end of our tour, so we came home.
Passion definitely sounds inspired and energetic. Is making new music now still a labor of love? How happy were/are you with how Passion turned out?
Music is my life. I formed the first John Verity Band in America in 1970 and I had already been playing professional in bands since the early 60s.
Fronting my own band was a big move for me.
I love doing what I do, my whole life from early teens has been about music, to the detriment of everything in my life. I’m very lucky to have found an amazing woman, Carole who’s prepared to put up with it. I sing and play every day, our home is a 300 year old cottage far enough from neighbours for me to make music anytime without interruption. It’s bliss!!
I’m really pleased with ‘Passion’ but like most musicians there are things I would change. A note here, note there…
Can you touch on what inspired some of the tracks [musically] on Passion? [I know there’s details in the liner notes on lyric ideas] ?
My music has swung between blues and rock over the years and I wanted to do an album that reflected that, and touched on some of my influences.
‘Higher’ is much like the stuff I was doing in the 80s and lyrically its about how I feel about my music. My harmonies are typical of stuff from that time, intentionally. It’s time-warp!
‘Get Wise’ it about what was the current political situation in the US. I think it’s sad that kids don’t seem to care about what’s going on around them…
‘Sand In My Pocket’ is a tongue in cheek conversation on what it’s like to be in a band being lied to by promoters/agents time and again. You end up with no money – just sand in your pocket… But we love it so much we do it anyway…
‘Broken Heart’ is about what we’re doing to our planet.
‘Big Stick’ I think it was Franklin D Roosevelt who spoke about Big Stick Diplomacy. The current (at time of writing) President should maybe take a leaf out of this book. The song, again with tongue in cheek refers to Trump and the UK Prime Minister Johnson.
‘Red Devil’ In the style of Cream I wanted to write about one of my musical heroes Ginger Baker.
‘Bad Boy’ I suppose is a really obvious tribute to another one of my heroes, Chuck Berry. He was a very bad boy, but he changed everything musically for me and countless other musicians like me.
‘The Open Road’ was never meant to be released, I just recorded it one day when I was feeling a bit blue. My Wife Carole pushed me to include it on the album.
I see you have vinyl copies of Passion at your website, might we see a vinyl edition of Out Of The Sun?
I don’t have the budget to do this at the moment – but you never know…
I presume you have a home studio [?] Have you spent more time in it during covid? Any extra music projects to keep you busy until live gigs come back fulltime?
I’m in my studio every day. As we speak I’m recording acoustic versions of some of my electric songs.
During pandemic I’ve been streaming weekly to a private group of fans from the studio.
Can you talk a bit about your own guitar playing and singing and who’s sort of influenced you, especially in later years, with more blues stuff?
I was into blues early in my career and the influence has be there throughout but maybe not so obvious.
I started like a lot of kids in the UK in the 60s. Skiffle had just finished and we were listening to Blues & R&B records from America, and of course Rock & Roll plus pop chart stuff.
I joined a group and we would play the easy 3 chord stuff, then as the instrumental groups like the Shadows, Ventures & Duane Eddy came along we’d some of that too.
I wasn’t really interested in anything else so would play whatever I had to play to get gigs. A bit of a musical tart!
I would play R&B and soul, sometimes a little Jazz, and of course Pop hits of the time. My influences by then were the up and coming blues players like Eric Clapton and Peter Green. I was already heavily influenced by BB King & Albert King.
I was in a band playing Soul & Chicago Blues at the end of the 60s when the ‘Underground’ music scene kicked off and we morphed into a band called ‘Tunnel’. We would stretch out musically and that’s when I started writing. By then I was pretty confident to solo on guitar and I think I was getting my own style together. We were living in America by then and doing some pretty amazing shows. When Tunnel came to an end in 1970 I decided to stay in the US and formed my first John Verity Band with drummer Teddy Napoleon and bassist Mark Troisi.
By that time Jimi Hendrix had arrived and scared all of us guitarists to death, and I had the honor of opening for him in Miami, 2 days after my 21st birthday in ’71.
This first JV Band lasted for about a year then my visa ran out and I had to return to the UK.
At home I continued to work on the songs I had started in Miami, and began looking for musicians for the next chapter of the JV Band.
After a few false starts I found a great lineup with Ron Kelly on Drums, Gerry Smith on bass and Geoff Lyth on guitar and keyboards.
I had just negotiated a record deal with Probe/ABC/Dunhill and we set about recording what would be my first album.
My timing once again was dreadful!
There were political problems in the UK resulting in a 3-day working week meaning studio time was scarce, but we managed to get the album finished at last.
With the album finished the label wanted me to tour, and secured an opening slot of the upcoming ‘Argent’ tour.
The rest, as they say is history…
*Photos of JV courtesy of – http://www.johnverity.com/
John Verity marked 50 years as a performer & recording artist with 2020’s album – Passion. The British guitarist/singer/songwriter was a part of Argent and then Phoenix in the ’70s,, and since 2001 has been releasing his own albums pretty regularly. Passion features Verity delivering 8 new blues rock, and blues ballads tunes. The first 2 tracks jump out right away – “Higher”, a great driving rock tune, followed by “Wise Up” with a cool guitar riff opener and a heavy drum sound (this one being in that Zeppelin / Bad Company class), love the organ throughout this one (courtesy of Jamie Pipe of The Mentulls), lyrically dealing with frustrations of worldly issues. “Sand In My Pocket” is a mid tempo blues number, a nice groove, fantastic playing and vocals. Next up is a bluesy ballad dealing with global environmental issues, delivered in this rather laid back and sad feeling tune “Broken Heart”. John pays tribute to Ginger Baker in the heavy blues cut “Red Devil”, while doing the same to Chuck Berry on “Bad Boy”. “Passion” ends with another heavy blues number titled “Big Stick”. Also included is the slowed paced, reflective guitar piece “The Open Road”; love the playing and the feel on this.
What I like a lot about this album is, aside from the fantastic playing, singing, and songs, is that Passion is kept to a solid production, without any excesses of added instrumentation, guests, and pieces that detract from the flow of it all, simply letting John (and company) deliver an appropriately titled album. Now to start working my way backwards through John’s more recent solo releases….
Line-up: JV – guitars & vocals / Bob Skeat & Roger Inniss – bass / Liam James Gray – drums / Jamie Pipe – keyboards.
Passion was issued on CD and Limited vinyl, and can be ordered at John’s site > http://www.johnverity.com
PHOENIX formed after ’70s classic band ARGENT disbanded, as it consisted of John Verity, Jim Rodford and Bob Henrit. Verity had joined Argent for their last 2 albums, replacing Russ Ballard; the band took on a change of direction, but Verity wanting to get back to a more straight ahead rock band came up with Phoenix. The band debuted in 1976 with their self-titled album. Not sure how well it did, but it is a classic ’70s hard-rock album, full of great guitar, Verity’s distinctive vocals, and a killer rhythm section., and stand outs like “From The Ashes”, “Woman Like You”, and “Easy”. Highly recommended ’70s rock listening, with Verity putting out a 30th anniversary CD edition some years ago.
Anyway, the band went in to record a 2nd album (which is the topic here), which was shelved as the record company at the time wanted the band to take on a more American radio friendly sound, hence 1979’s flop – In Full View. The band would release 1 more single before disbanding.
Now, nearly 43 years later that 2nd ‘lost’ album has been rediscovered and mastered for release by John Verity. Titled Out Of The Sun, with a cover that resembles that classic album cover for the Phoenix debut album, featuring 8 tracks individually penned by each band member, as well as a track from Chris White (Zombies).
Upon first listen through, it is safe to say if you liked that first Phoenix album – you will really like this! A great mix of rockers, ballads, a bit of funk, blues… Out Of The Sun opens with “Are You Ready”, an upbeat heavy rocker, very fitting musically and lyrically here. (Can’t help but be reminded of Grand Funk’s song of the same title). There are a couple of piano based ballads [featuring Rod Argent] – “Fallin'”, which is highlighted by Verity’s vocal, harmonies, and a smokin’ guitar break, as well as the cut “When My Boat Comes In”, again with a great high vocal,, a bit of synths, – this one would’ve made a fine single. “Loser” is a rocker, with a good bit of attitude; this song really makes me think these guys were really having a blast recording this stuff. “Spider Woman” is a cool sounding slower number, a bit funky, great groove, one of my favorites here, as is “Take My Music”, a bit more of an uptempo rocker, complete with some nice backing harmonies, a few changes, killer guitar sound; too bad this one fades out so soon. “Winds Of Change”, followed by “You Got Soul” close out this disc, both strong cuts, a bit of blues, soul, funk, and solid rock.
It is a shame this album was lost for so long, because it is a fantastic follow up and equally as impressive as the debut. Not a dodgy cut here. Just a very cool sounding guitar rock album of the 70s, from a tight sounding band that ended too soon.
RIP Jim Rodford, 2018
Order at > http://www.johnverity.com
Many years back I had written to John Verity (ex Argent, Phoenix, Charlie). I really dug that first Phoenix album, and had picked up one of his solo albums, his albums with Argent, and Charlie. But I still had a lot to get, so many of my questions were a bit of ‘fishing’ as I wasn’t familiar with a number of projects. We also didn’t have youtube back then or Discogs to research on…. Anyway, I tried to get a good account of John’s career, and he replied with lots of information and stories. With the recent news of a new release – the ‘lost’ Phoenix album, I decided to re-post this (w/ a few edits), and links and tracks put in.
John Verity has been in the rock business since the late ’60s, but his name came to prominence in 1975 when he replaced Russ Ballard in ARGENT. After 2 albums with Argent, Verity formed the band PHOENIX – who released 2 albums, before releasing a few solo albums, recording an album with US aor band CHARLIE, and getting into production work. John Verity still records and gigs to this day, and is currently readying a new album as well as re-releasing some things from his own catalogue. For more on the man check out>http://www.johnverity.com
What can you tell me about your early days — bands? – people of notoriety you played with? earliest recordings? breaks? etc…
I Started in the 60’s with groups in my home town, Bradford, Yorkshire. Played R&B, Pop & Blues. Got my first real break when I was asked to play guitar for 60’s R&B/ Pop star ‘Dave Berry’ – great experience as we gigged solidly & toured heavily until the band was asked (without DB) to go to the Bahamas for a stint at the ‘Jokers Wild’ club in Freeport, Grand Bahama, in 1968. We stayed for almost a year – I did my first singing then ( I was never allowed to sing before, but we did so many sets, 7 nights a week that our main vocalist needed a break!). In ’69 a promoter from Miami spotted us playing at Jokers Wild and invited us to Florida to do some serious gigs. The band didn’t last long, but I stayed behind & formed the first JV Band with US musicians, gigged with Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Mountain, Canned Heat, PG&E, and others before moving back to UK. Got my first record deal with ABC / Dunhill on my return to UK in 1970/71.
What do you remember of this album? who produced it? any ‘name’ people involved? how did it do? read ‘was recorded late ’72 for Probe/ ABC Dunhill’.
Sorry.. No names on the album. Produced by Steve Rowlands who produced the Herd, Family Dogg, and other pop bands in the UK around that time.
Who was in the first Verity Band? any stories from Hendrix , Mountain, or Canned Heat? what kind of music were you doing back then?
The US JV Band was a three piece – Teddy on drums & Mark on bass. No surnames I’m embarrassed to say – its a long time ago! Nothing earthshaking to report on the other bands I’m afraid. Hendrix was kinda unhappy because people were shouting for the old stuff – he was into the Band of Gypsies thing — line-up was Billy Cox & Buddy Miles. The gig was in Miami – I believe it could have his last in the US.
How did you come to join Argent ?
My first album ‘John Verity Band’ was released on Probe/ABC Dunhill late ’74 and I went on the road touring as support to Argent. Russ Ballard decided to leave on that tour, and recommended me as his replacement.
You played on just ‘Circus’ and ‘Counterpoint’ albums? anything else? [live or unreleased?]
There are unreleased tracks, also we ‘reformed’ to do some sessions in ’77 – the line-up was Rod, Russell, Bob Henrit, Jim Rodford & Me. The tracks were never released & and the ‘reformation’ never happened. I ended up spending quite a lot of time in the studio with Russell working on his songwriting projects during that period – ’78 to ’81. Russell was also involved in the final ‘Phoenix’ recordings in 1980. The lineup was me Bob & Ray, plus Dave Wintour on bass and Russell on piano. We recorded two songs that Russell had written – ‘Juliet’ & ‘I Surrender’. The record company Charisma didn’t like ‘I Surrender’ – said it wasn’t a commercial song! & released ‘Juliet’ as a single instead with no success. B side was ‘I’m In Love’ from “In Full View”. Russell used our version of ‘I Surrender’ as a demo, and ‘Rainbow’ picked up on it. The rest is history…
Were you familiar with Argent prior to joining them? what band did you [and John G.] come from?
I wasn’t really familiar with the band prior to the support tour – but the sheer quality of their musicianship just blew me away.. I think I’ve covered my background prior the Argent. John G was much younger with little band experience – he was a truly natural, gifted musician though, but never liked the touring aspect – well, he hated it really!
Did you feel any pressure/criticism having to fill in Russ Ballard’s spot, baring in mind he wrote a lot of the earlier classics? [did you write songs in these days? ]
I did feel pressure – I just wanted to be good, and make my mark. I did write songs (I had written the John Verity Band album), but there was no chance of writing songs for Argent with someone with pedigree of Rod around!
What was the plan or direction / aim of the new line-up when you joined?
The band was getting into Fusion/ Jazz Rock which I didn’t really like, and anyway they were such a great rock band. I think we lost our way really… musically.
Was Rod the musical ‘director that lead the band away from more rock stuff?
Kind of. The rest of the band seemed happy enough at the time, to go along with this ‘new’ direction. I suspect Robert was a little unhappy at the change but probably I was the only one who felt really uncomfortable with it. I was quite shocked when the new songs were first presented to me, but I didn’t have the confidence to speak out at the time…
How do you feel the 2 Argent LPs you were on compared to previous Argent LP? Were there any successful singles? Why did the band split?
I didn’t feel that the later albums were as successful musically as the earlier albums, though they had their moments. There were singles, but no success. The band split because (a) we weren’t making any money! (b) Rod & John G were sick of touring. (c) Rod wanted to move in a different direction musically (I was agitating to move back to Rock & Roll) (d) I wanted to form a straight ahead power trio with Bob & Jim – ‘Phoenix’.
How much of the drums did Phil Collins play on Counterpoints?
About half. Some tracks are half Bob & half Phil!.
Were you happy with this radical shift away from the anthemic early 70s heavy rock in the Free vein towards spacey jazz-rock, and if so, were you instrumental in this switch?
No, hated it!
How did The John Verity Band  come about, who were the members, where from (which bands)?
All the members of the JV Band were from local bands in my home town (Bradford). We met when I returned from US early ’70’s. The earliest sessions for the album in ’72 were done with session musicians, but I wasn’t happy & formed a ‘normal’ band line-up with Geoff Lyth (guitar & keyboards). We had various bass players & drummers, and the line-up finally settled at Jerry Smith (bass), & Ron Kelly (drums) in time for the album sessions which began at Advision studios in London late ’73. Album produced by Steve Rowlands.
Any singles released? much success, tours, breaks…? How did that one album do on the market?
Lots of gigs – toured with Argent, the line-up changed. New line-up included Biff Byford (Saxon) on bass, and guitarist Paul Quinn (Saxon). I produced the first Saxon album a couple of years later.
What happened afterwards – why did it break up? [anything recorded after the 1974 album that didn’t get released?]
We were rehearsing for a new album when the Argent gig was firmed up. Biff, Paul & the guys gigged as the John Verity Band without me! before forming ‘SonOfABitch’ which became Saxon.
You formed Phoenix with Jim Rodford and Rob Henrit [from Argent days]. How did this band begin? Was it intentional to make it a heavier sounding band than Argent?
Yup. [See above] – during the final Argent US tour, I had the feeling that we should be moving into a more straight ahead direction. I knew that there was a niche for us & Bob & Jim agreed. We signed to CBS though, and it took too long to get product out, by which time the UK music scene was being swamped by New Wave/ Punk. We were Dinosaurs in the UK by then.
You all contributed to the first Phoenix album, which was a classic LP IMO. What happened with the first album — much success, etc… ?
We did well in some areas. Lots of great response to gigs – we toured UK/ Europe & Scandinavia with Aerosmith, but I decided to get into Production.
Who else did you produce of note?
Saxon, Tank, Motorhead, Searchers, Marseille, BlackSlate, Brian Connelly (Sweet) – plus lots of bands’ ‘first albums’.
Can you explain the change prior to the 2nd Phoenix LP in which Jim left and was replaced by Ray Minhinnett – who played guitar, while you doubled on bass [guitars, vox…], and also added Ronnie Lee Cunningham on keys?? [where did Ray and Ronnie come from?]
Ray was/ is a buddy of mine. He was with Frankie Millers Full House. Fantastic guitar player, and we wrote songs together. Jim was offered the gig with the Kinks & went with our blessing, but we decided not to replace him – I played the bass parts & then added my guitars later. The other guys were brought in as session players by our American producer. Great musicians but I didn’t feel the album worked – no ‘Band’ vibe.
In Full View also featured a few outside penned tracks — “I Don’t Mind” [Walden] – where did this come from? as well it included Russ Ballard’s “Just Another Day” – why did you do this song?
I’m always open to good outside material and we felt ‘I Don’t Mind’ was a strong song (sent to us by the Publisher). I had engineered & played/ sung on Russell’s demo of ‘Just Another Day’ and asked him if we could do it for Phoenix.
What happened on the 2nd LP that would explain the change from the debut? Was there outside interference, recording company, etc.. ?? How well did this LP do?
The record company was responsible for the change of direction which I felt was a disaster. It didn’t do well.
Any examples or stories pertaining to this?
Not really – the business was in real upheaval at that time, and the UK scene was particularly screwed up, so Charisma decided we should go to America to record. I was thinking New York – they were thinking LA. We went to LA. WRONG!
I presume Phoenix split after the 2nd LP!? what were the highlights of this band for you? what happened in the end?
The highlight was the early period when we first came off the road with Argent. We were all match fit and playing well. Bob, Jim & I have great respect for each other as musicians & people. I loved that band, but it should never have been allowed to change direction musically, or be interfered with by outside producers & record company personnel!. Bob & Jim are good friends to this day and often form the current JV Band line-up for gigs & recording. I love them both like brothers.
What did you do in the years following Phoenix and the first “Verity” LP? any other bands, recordings, ..?
Mostly production & writing/ session playing. Russ Ballard, Ringo Starr, Colin Blunstone, Bowowow, Tank, Motorhead, Saxon etc.
You auditioned for Uriah Heep. were you disappointed this didn’t pan out ? What do you recall of the auditions? Have you had any other contact or association with an Heep guys?
Not too disappointed as it was only intended that I fill in until the band found someone permanent – which they did with Pete Goalby. All good players – Mick’s an excellent guitar player. Pete G’s a fantastic singer & good friend today.
What’s Pete up to these days? Ever worked with him?
Never worked with Pete – just jammed at a gig one time, but we’re buddies – been through a lot of the same music biz bullshit. He’s well, but having a break from it for a while.
Interrupted Journey was a very classy ’80s HR album, and still stands up pretty good today. You produced and engineered the album, as well as guitar & vocals, and had a long list of guest players,..Was it really a solo album? and who exactly was in the band? Who toured with you, etc.?
Yes, it was a solo album initially, which I began recording in ‘down time’ at Livingston Studios in between production projects. As recording progressed I began to ask my friends to sing & play on it. The touring band had Steve Rodford (son of Jim!) on drums, and my old mate Terry Uttley (Smokie) on bass, who became my partner in crime for some time until Smokie re-formed.
What can you tell me about how the guest-list became on this album > Rutherford, Argent, Ballard, Terry Uttley… ?
Mike Rutherford contacted me because he’d heard that I was doing a solo album. He wanted to produce or participate in some way. I went to Genesis’ studio where we recorded 3 songs with just me, Bob Henrit, & Mike playing. I added all the extra stuff at my own studio. Dave Wintour was doing lots of bass sessions around that time, including Russ Ballard & Leo Sayer.
Why did you re-do “Just Another Day” – the Ballard song that you had recorded with Phoenix? and what can you tell me about some of the other outside penned tracks, such as the Mike Rutherford song, “Love Is Blind”, “Stay With me Baby”, “Chippin Away At The Stone”… ?
I re-recorded ‘Just Another Day’ because I felt that we had screwed it up on the Phoenix album. The other songs were just great pieces that I wanted to do my own version of. Mike wrote some stuff especially for me which was nice. ‘Stay With Me’ is my favorite song (I’m re-doing it on my new album!)
What were your favorite tracks on that album? Any singles? much success, etc.. ?
I don’t have a favorite track. It’s my best work to date, with the exception of the first ‘Phoenix’ album.
What can you tell me about your association with CHARLIE? Did you only play on the 1 album? What happened with this gig?
I was brought in to ‘rough up’ Charlie’s sound in a production sense, and Terry was going to get involved in the production of a new Phoenix album. In the event, I ended up singing & playing on the Charlie album, and I brought in Bob Henrit on drums. The Phoenix album was abandoned. I thought the Charlie album was good, but I didn’t enjoy the ‘painting by numbers’ approach so I left to start ‘Interrupted Journey’.
What can you tell me about the 3rd Verity album Rock Solid? [who played on it? how well did this LP do?]
Rock Solid was done in my own studio. I did a lot of the work myself, with my usual guests dropping by. Unfortunately the label went broke soon after release, but I hope to get it re-released soon.
What have you done since the last Verity album? Recordings? Bands? [what can you tell me about such albums as Hold Your Head Up, etc…?]
Hold Your Head is a compilation of various JV Band stuff. The title track is an un-released track which I originally recorded for Interrupted Journey. I’ve continued to gig & record/ do production & try to help young musicians develop their careers. I’m currently working on a new album & preparing older material for re-release.
What are you involved in outside of music? hobbies, interests… ?
Music Music Music – boring old rock fart!
Can you give me a few of your favorite guitar players, influences, singers, songwriters, ? What do you listen to these days?
My influences are wide – Hendrix, Beck, Clapton, Aretha, BB King, Beatles, Dylan. I listen to whatever takes me.
Interview – Kevin J. 2000. / *top photo from Johnverity.com
Phoenix was a short-lived 70s trio consisting of ex Argent members John Verity, Jim Rodford, and Bob Henrit. The band’s debut was the excellent 1976 self-titled album that featured great guitar rock and vocals, featuring such stand-outs as “Easy”, “A Woman Like You” and “From The Ashes”‘. After a few years the band returned with 1979’s In Full View. This album saw Ray Minhinnett (ex Highway) added on guitar and American Ronnie Lee Cunningham (ex Law) on keyboards, while Rodford had left with Verity also playing bass. Rod Argent and Russ Ballard also made guest appearances. American producer was also brought in to work with the band in LA. But the album was softer, more mainstream, and lacked the feel of the first one. Frankly, I just never got in to this one. However, we now come to learn that a 2nd Phoenix album, with the original trio was recorded in ’77, and recently mastered and released by John. Below, John gives details and the story behind the ‘lost’ Phoenix album which can now be ordered through his website – http://www.johnverity.com
An amazing piece of news is that just a few months ago we rediscovered the ‘Lost’ Phoenix album. Back in 1977 Bob Henrit, Jim Rodford, & myself went into Trident Studios in London to record the follow up to our first album “Phoenix’. The new album was to be titled ‘Out of the Sun’.We really felt we had pushed the envelope both technically and creatively with this one, and I was proud of what I had achieved as a producer using the tools at my disposal. Sadly our record label CBS did not agree. Punk/New Wave had really taken a hold and almost overnight we were simply unfashionable…The album was put on ice, and somehow the masters were lost – until now.
By a twist of fate I got the opportunity to look again at these recordings with a view to releasing them over 40 years after they were recorded. A copy of the last set of mixes I had done resurfaced and I was able to get them restored, and then I remastered the tracks at home in my studio. We secured funding from fans and had the CD manufactured for release after all this time. I think the result is stunning. Transform yourself back to the ’70’s!!’
*Some years ago I interviewed John Verity (via email), and I be re-posting that here soon.